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[font='Open Sans', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you are expending huge amounts of effort to get pussy, then your achievements are not impressive, you need to account for the effort that you expend to make friends with girls and put that relative to the effort to reward ratio since that's whats interesting here. Almost anyone, even me, can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication, the question is how much.[/font]
Legit. It's not about getting laid, it's about how much effort you put into doing it. I know an ugly short guy who was friendzoned for 20 years. Finally the girl broke down and dated him...for 3 weeks. Was it worth it? A lifetime of effort to date one girl for 3 weeks? No, it's pitiful.
 
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just imagine. every inch of height you could have been born with would be 3 years off the time it took for her to give you a chance and 3 years onto the time she would have loved you for.
 
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i agree with the overall statement, but one premise is wrong....not everyone can get with hot girls (who arent hookers)...
LMS is a law like gravity...and if you are low LMS you are guaranteed to NEVER enter the pussy of a attractive female without buying or raping her. no amount of effort will open that gate for you...
 

lono

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The German Dream said:
i agree with the overall statement, but one premise is wrong....not everyone can get with hot girls (who arent hookers)...
LMS is a law like gravity...and if you are low LMS you are guaranteed to NEVER enter the pussy of a attractive female without buying or raping her. no amount of effort will open that gate for you...
I have to disagree. Status and dominance are one of the biggest signs of good genes.
 

driftwood

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GorillaMogged said:
[font='Open Sans', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you are expending huge amounts of effort to get pussy, then your achievements are not impressive, you need to account for the effort that you expend to make friends with girls and put that relative to the effort to reward ratio since that's whats interesting here. Almost anyone, even me, can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication, the question is how much.[/font]
Legit. It's not about getting laid, it's about how much effort you put into doing it. I know an ugly short guy who was friendzoned for 20 years. Finally the girl broke down and dated him...for 3 weeks. Was it worth it? A lifetime of effort to date one girl for 3 weeks? No, it's pitiful.
So now you're redefining the term incel to mean something else?

If you look at the human organism from a wider lens you'll see that much of what we do on a daily basis is a means to get laid.

It's a matter of values to him, he would rather spend 2 hours morphing pictures than 2 hours at a shopping center talking to girls.  That's simply a matter of personal preference, likely you share that preference.  

Also keep in mind that humans are social creatures.  Simply sitting in the presence of another human gives us some odd kind of validation.  Viewing all socializing in a gain/loss view is very aspie


And no.  Not everyone can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication.  I would bet that theres really simply no amount of effort he can do to ever get a girl above an 8
 
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lono said:
The German Dream said:
i agree with the overall statement, but one premise is wrong....not everyone can get with hot girls (who arent hookers)...
LMS is a law like gravity...and if you are low LMS you are guaranteed to NEVER enter the pussy of a attractive female without buying or raping her. no amount of effort will open that gate for you...
I have to disagree. Status and dominance are one of the biggest signs of good genes.
thats what im saying?
effort =/= status or dominance
LMS is law...effort has little place in there
 

driftwood

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The German Dream said:
lono said:
The German Dream said:
i agree with the overall statement, but one premise is wrong....not everyone can get with hot girls (who arent hookers)...
LMS is a law like gravity...and if you are low LMS you are guaranteed to NEVER enter the pussy of a attractive female without buying or raping her. no amount of effort will open that gate for you...
I have to disagree. Status and dominance are one of the biggest signs of good genes.
thats what im saying?
effort =/= status or dominance
LMS is law...effort has little place in there
Yes effort does not equal status and dominance.  

If we can learn ANYTHING from physiognomy it is that gaining status as a dominant man while looking incel would be even rarer than getting laid with the same face.
 
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driftwood said:
GorillaMogged said:
[font='Open Sans', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you are expending huge amounts of effort to get pussy, then your achievements are not impressive, you need to account for the effort that you expend to make friends with girls and put that relative to the effort to reward ratio since that's whats interesting here. Almost anyone, even me, can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication, the question is how much.[/font]
Legit. It's not about getting laid, it's about how much effort you put into doing it. I know an ugly short guy who was friendzoned for 20 years. Finally the girl broke down and dated him...for 3 weeks. Was it worth it? A lifetime of effort to date one girl for 3 weeks? No, it's pitiful.
So now you're redefining the term incel to mean something else?

If you look at the human organism from a wider lens you'll see that much of what we do on a daily basis is a means to get laid.

It's a matter of values to him, he would rather spend 2 hours morphing pictures than 2 hours at a shopping center talking to girls.  That's simply a matter of personal preference, likely you share that preference.  

Also keep in mind that humans are social creatures.  Simply sitting in the presence of another human gives us some odd kind of validation.  Viewing all socializing in a gain/loss view is very aspie


And no.  Not everyone can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication.  I would bet that theres really simply no amount of effort he can do to ever get a girl above an 8
Another huge cope and cop out.

Being rejected does not give you validation "talking to girls" is a very general description to conceal that what youre doing is seeking their approval of you, its not communication on equal terms. To completely ignore effort to reward ratio is a cope for you to justify spending hundreds of hours hitting on girls for 1 hour of sex. Where do I state that "I view all socializing in a gain/loss view"? That's your projection.

I don't like trying to desperately appeal to people who want nothing to do with me, hence the only reason I would do so is to extract something from them. In this case its sex, and it becomes abundantly clear that viewing that from a pain vs gain perspective is vital.

Youre trying to convince yourself that you actually like being rejected and subsequently degraded, that you like the process of being a handbag to a girl so that you can be her friend and sometime in the future extract sex from that. And maybe you are a masochist and you actually do like it, but if so you should consider yourself very lucky since most of us cannot derive motivation from that since we're not masochists.

To say that engaging in activities that are stimulating and cause no pain (rejection being found to be registered as physical pain by scientific studies) is equal to subjecting yourself to experiences that will cause pain is simply invalid for obvious reasons.

I like to watch movies and I watch them because I like it. I don't like to hit on girls because I get rejected, but I do so because I want to get laid. To say that watching movies and hitting on girls are equal activities and only consider the time spent is a giant cope.

Its like a gymcel who hates going to the gym but who wants to have a good body so he does it anyways, but he lies to himself and others that he likes it.
 

driftwood

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When I approach a girl im not approaching from the perspective of "Please like me and accept me."


When I see a girl I think i'd like to fuck I go up to her and see if I also like her character (and how she looks upclose)

There are numerous things... I've been making out with 7/10 females who had bad breath which turned me off to them.




I'm screening them to see if they are decent human beings.  If a hot girl is too fickle I might simply just ignore her.


Once again I do a lot of stuff socially.  I troll girls to their face.  I talk about plastic surgery and which ones they need.  I don't walk up to girls and tell them their cute in hopes they will approve of me.  That WOULD get very old very fast



I also have approached and been approached or otherwise met (through females) guys who I've gotten along with, exchanged value, played football/ultimate frisbee with.
 

Franktank

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Driftwood is still not ready to swallow the redpill. Lol at still using this site. If you slay stop posting here
 

driftwood

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sensorydeprivation said:
driftwood said:
GorillaMogged said:
Legit. It's not about getting laid, it's about how much effort you put into doing it. I know an ugly short guy who was friendzoned for 20 years. Finally the girl broke down and dated him...for 3 weeks. Was it worth it? A lifetime of effort to date one girl for 3 weeks? No, it's pitiful.
So now you're redefining the term incel to mean something else?

If you look at the human organism from a wider lens you'll see that much of what we do on a daily basis is a means to get laid.

It's a matter of values to him, he would rather spend 2 hours morphing pictures than 2 hours at a shopping center talking to girls.  That's simply a matter of personal preference, likely you share that preference.  

Also keep in mind that humans are social creatures.  Simply sitting in the presence of another human gives us some odd kind of validation.  Viewing all socializing in a gain/loss view is very aspie


And no.  Not everyone can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication.  I would bet that theres really simply no amount of effort he can do to ever get a girl above an 8
Another huge cope and cop out.

Being rejected does not give you validation "talking to girls" is a very general description to conceal that what youre doing is seeking their approval of you, its not communication on equal terms. To completely ignore effort to reward ratio is a cope for you to justify spending hundreds of hours hitting on girls for 1 hour of sex. Where do I state that "I view all socializing in a gain/loss view"? That's your projection.

I don't like trying to desperately appeal to people who want nothing to do with me, hence the only reason I would do so is to extract something from them. In this case its sex, and it becomes abundantly clear that viewing that from a pain vs gain perspective is vital.

Youre trying to convince yourself that you actually like being rejected and subsequently degraded, that you like the process of being a handbag to a girl so that you can be her friend and sometime in the future extract sex from that. And maybe you are a masochist and you actually do like it, but if so you should consider yourself very lucky since most of us cannot derive motivation from that since we're not masochists.

To say that engaging in activities that are stimulating and cause no pain (rejection being found to be registered as physical pain by scientific studies) is equal to subjecting yourself to experiences that will cause pain is simply invalid for obvious reasons.

I like to watch movies and I watch them because I like it. I don't like to hit on girls because I get rejected, but I do so because I want to get laid. To say that watching movies and hitting on girls are equal activities and only consider the time spent is a giant cope.

Its like a gymcel who hates going to the gym but who wants to have a good body so he does it anyways, but he lies to himself and others that he likes it.
Franktank said:
Driftwood is still not ready to swallow the redpill. Lol at still using this site. If you slay stop posting here
[hr]
What the redpill is, is the notion of self doubt.

Let's say I am an 8/10 and I am socializing with a female and shes treating me well but not perfectly.  And I start to wonder how she'd treat me if I were a 9/10.  

This is the birth of self doubt.

It is ubiquitous to all of humankind.  Not just a few special snowflakes who found out the truth and locked themselves in their room.  Hell even dogs feel it to a certain degree.

Going out and socializing is a way to cope for sure.  Because going out and walking up to 100 girls a night and saying "you;re pretty can i buy you a drink" would start to become painful after a while.  You would be treated with lower value
 

lanklet

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sensdep is quite the annoying little fuckwit, but that quote is pretty legit.

Women just aren't worth the hassle the vast majority of the time.  Is it really worth expending all of the necessary effort & resources just to stick my dick into a wet hole occasionally?  Not in my opinion.

Being able to fuck a non-primitive girl with hardly any effort involved is also a pretty great feeling.
 

driftwood

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lanklet said:
sensdep is quite the annoying little fuckwit, but that quote is pretty legit.

Women just aren't worth the hassle the vast majority of the time.  Is it really worth expending all of the necessary effort & resources just to stick my dick into a wet hole occasionally?  Not in my opinion.

Being able to fuck a non-primitive girl with hardly any effort involved is also a pretty great feeling.
If you are anti-social then no.

If you enjoy trolling and otherwise fucking with people and are socially dominant enough to be "weird"(AKA act how you really feel inside) then it might be at least entertaining.


Here's an example.  [video=youtube]

"7.2 elbows too pointy"

thats an old ass video I dont think i even understood the rating metrics back then
 

lanklet

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driftwood said:
lanklet said:
sensdep is quite the annoying little fuckwit, but that quote is pretty legit.

Women just aren't worth the hassle the vast majority of the time.  Is it really worth expending all of the necessary effort & resources just to stick my dick into a wet hole occasionally?  Not in my opinion.

Being able to fuck a non-primitive girl with hardly any effort involved is also a pretty great feeling.
If you are anti-social then no.

If you enjoy trolling and otherwise fucking with people and are socially dominant enough to be "weird"(AKA act how you really feel inside) then it might be at least entertaining.


Here's an example.  [video=youtube]

"7.2 elbows too pointy"

thats an old ass video I dont think i even understood the rating metrics back then
I guess I'd describe myself as relatively antisocial.  Not like in that video though.  I don't just fuck with people for no reason.

Asocial might actually be a better word.  I just prefer being alone the vast majority of the time, most people are shitty and uninteresting to communicate with.  Especially women, most of which have awfully generic and uninteresting personalities & interests.
 

driftwood

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I agree lanklet 

What I value though is expressing myself to people.  Even uninteresting ones.

We're all on this message board because we like to be heard.
[hr]
Like right now i have a zit on my face.  and this is the first time ive been posting in a while.  It's hell because I want to be out of my house right now.  Observing people, being seen ect ect.

I think it's just a different personality type
[hr]
 
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driftwood said:
sensorydeprivation said:
driftwood said:
So now you're redefining the term incel to mean something else?

If you look at the human organism from a wider lens you'll see that much of what we do on a daily basis is a means to get laid.

It's a matter of values to him, he would rather spend 2 hours morphing pictures than 2 hours at a shopping center talking to girls.  That's simply a matter of personal preference, likely you share that preference.  

Also keep in mind that humans are social creatures.  Simply sitting in the presence of another human gives us some odd kind of validation.  Viewing all socializing in a gain/loss view is very aspie


And no.  Not everyone can get laid with hot girls with enough dedication.  I would bet that theres really simply no amount of effort he can do to ever get a girl above an 8
Another huge cope and cop out.

Being rejected does not give you validation "talking to girls" is a very general description to conceal that what youre doing is seeking their approval of you, its not communication on equal terms. To completely ignore effort to reward ratio is a cope for you to justify spending hundreds of hours hitting on girls for 1 hour of sex. Where do I state that "I view all socializing in a gain/loss view"? That's your projection.

I don't like trying to desperately appeal to people who want nothing to do with me, hence the only reason I would do so is to extract something from them. In this case its sex, and it becomes abundantly clear that viewing that from a pain vs gain perspective is vital.

Youre trying to convince yourself that you actually like being rejected and subsequently degraded, that you like the process of being a handbag to a girl so that you can be her friend and sometime in the future extract sex from that. And maybe you are a masochist and you actually do like it, but if so you should consider yourself very lucky since most of us cannot derive motivation from that since we're not masochists.

To say that engaging in activities that are stimulating and cause no pain (rejection being found to be registered as physical pain by scientific studies) is equal to subjecting yourself to experiences that will cause pain is simply invalid for obvious reasons.

I like to watch movies and I watch them because I like it. I don't like to hit on girls because I get rejected, but I do so because I want to get laid. To say that watching movies and hitting on girls are equal activities and only consider the time spent is a giant cope.

Its like a gymcel who hates going to the gym but who wants to have a good body so he does it anyways, but he lies to himself and others that he likes it.
Franktank said:
Driftwood is still not ready to swallow the redpill. Lol at still using this site. If you slay stop posting here
[hr]
What the redpill is, is the notion of self doubt.

Let's say I am an 8/10 and I am socializing with a female and shes treating me well but not perfectly.  And I start to wonder how she'd treat me if I were a 9/10.  

This is the birth of self doubt.

It is ubiquitous to all of humankind.  Not just a few special snowflakes who found out the truth and locked themselves in their room.  Hell even dogs feel it to a certain degree.

Going out and socializing is a way to cope for sure.  Because going out and walking up to 100 girls a night and saying "you;re pretty can i buy you a drink" would start to become painful after a while.  You would be treated with lower value

You're still unwilling to concede that seeking value from other people who view you as low value by initiating interactions with them and subsequently getting rejected by them most of the time, is an unpleasant and painful experience most of the time. You claim it isn't because of your ability to 'mix things up' through "self amusement".

The "self amusement" is not sufficient to mitigate the pain and you're all too aware of this or you wouldn't spend so much time questioning what you do.

"I'm only hitting on girls because I like to socialize, and if they want to have sex then that's a bonus" is not a believable statement for any ugly man to make.

You also like to try imagine that all of my interactions with girls have consisted of "hey you're cute" as a coping mechanism to justify your delusion that you actually enjoy the pain received rather than look at it from an objective point of view. Just because I haven't done PUA does not mean that I haven't tried to talk about a lot of different things and behave differently in order to force a positive outcome. The difference between you and me, is that I was able to accept that my behaviour and things that I talked about with girls did not change the outcome when the girl wasn't attracted to me. You cannot create attraction when there is none there to begin with, no matter how you behave or whatever you talk about.

Admitting that you're expending absurd amounts of effort for little rewards would mean that logical discourse for you dictate you improve your preconditions rather than repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome for most of your interactions. This would lead you to getting surgery as the meaningful course of action but you're stuck at the bargaining stage in the grief process that one experiences when realizing one is ugly.
 

driftwood

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I've mentioned that when I started talking to you and Greg, thats when my life (quality of life) and self doubt started creeping in.


I defined self-doubt earlier.  As the idea that someone else would be treated better than you for a variety of reasons.  Self-doubt exists even for hot guys in the form of jealousy and controllingness in a relationship.


Before that I was happy.  I knew that all guys were rejected more than they were accepted and I figured maybe I am rejected a little more or less than other guys. 

But when I started hearing that I'm ugly and that all my thought-process were coping mechanisms it destroyed me.


Let's say I dont mind putting an extra hour or two to get a girl than a guy who is better looking than me.  And you don't like expending extra energy.  That is your own choice.  But to call me ugly over and over and that I'm coping is insane.  







It is a harmful behavior and in general people who are unhappy want to make other people unhappy.  This is grounded in psychology.  




Where I live I simply do not have enough females to be playing a numbers game.  I live in a small town.  So by my numbers, I have about = success to Goodlookingloser
[hr]
Like I said self doubt exists in EVERYONE.

me doubting myself doesn't prove that I have had a lack of success.
 
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driftwood said:
I've mentioned that when I started talking to you and Greg, thats when my life (quality of life) and self doubt started creeping in.


I defined self-doubt earlier.  As the idea that someone else would be treated better than you for a variety of reasons.  Self-doubt exists even for hot guys in the form of jealousy and controllingness in a relationship.


Before that I was happy.  I knew that all guys were rejected more than they were accepted and I figured maybe I am rejected a little more or less than other guys. 

But when I started hearing that I'm ugly and that all my thought-process were coping mechanisms it destroyed me.


Let's say I dont mind putting an extra hour or two to get a girl than a guy who is better looking than me.  And you don't like expending extra energy.  That is your own choice.  But to call me ugly over and over and that I'm coping is insane.  







It is a harmful behavior and in general people who are unhappy want to make other people unhappy.  This is grounded in psychology.  




Where I live I simply do not have enough females to be playing a numbers game.  I live in a small town.  So by my numbers, I have about = success to Goodlookingloser
Its not about an "extra hour or two" compared to what a good looking guy would have to put in. You've literally centred your entire life around getting girls in order to achieve the limited success that good looking guys enjoy without trying a fraction as hard as you are. That jealousy and self doubt exists even among the good looking is irrelevant to the subject.

Your self doubt is not affecting the outcome of your interactions as much as you'd like to believe, this is just another coping mechanism. Its about effort put in which will result in a given result. The more effort you put in the more results you'll get but the amount and the quality will vary greatly dependant on your preconditions.

If the amount of results and the quality of the results are not enough to justify the effort expended then one shall seek to improve the preconditions rather than expending even more effort.
 

driftwood

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Dude im in my mid thirties.

There are no guys who do what I can do at my age.

Honestly fixing my facial bony flaws might make me look closer to my age.

I am an oldcel who is able to do amazing feats.  The best looking guys from my highschool class are laughable.  every single one
[hr]
That is your thought process. 

And you're fine to think that.

But telling another person they're coping and a fool to disagree with you is not a "scientific" way of approaching anything.

We're only speculating on what degree of relative success GL guys have (without social circles)