albert_camus

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No, I didn't respond to the rest of your original post because I honestly don't give a shit about what you have to say. I joined here for the purpose of getting objective advice on how to improve my looks, so I have a tendency to just briefly skim over and ignore irrelevant posts.

What's both funny and said is that when I was your age, I wasn't getting laid, but I also wasn't posting on incel and plastic surgery forums begging for advice on how I can improve my looks. I was basically happy with my routine, hobbies, getting to go on vacations, etc. And yet here you are in the prime of your life - when attractive males are having the times of their lives hooking up with hot girls -- posting on an incel/PS forum while the truly GL guys your age are
indulging in an incredible lifestyle.

It's one thing for someone like me who is past the age bracket of someone who is able to become chad or be a candidate for casual sex to post here for objective advice on how to improve physical flaws, but what does it say about someone who is actually IN that demographic (I.e., you) who posts here regularly instead of spending time with your 20-something peers who are going out, enjoying themselves, and hooking up with hot girls?

Tinder didn't even exist when I was in college, and I couldn't imagine having to lived my 20s in an era of rampant casual sex that I'd have to miss out entirely on. In a way, I feel sorry for you because I know how much it must suck to know how much you're missing out on.

I was never a chad at any point in my life, but I sure as hell didn't spend a single second of my 20s posting on forums like this one, because even I had a fulfilling-enough lifestyle for it to not occur to me to do so. The fact that you're sitting here posting all day instead of getting out there and taking advantage of the lifestyle that GL guys your age are afforded is just sad, and it makes me glad I'm 30+ in my situation and not yours. I would never want to trade places with you.
dude you just wrote how many letters to proof what exactly? i even have to admit i just skimmed through it.

sounds like you dont really seem to belief it yourself completely. reads like a self assurance.

and i see how you "ignore" my posts - by writing a 1000 letters replies? seems like you really got hurt by my assumptions (which in opposite to you have some basis) which tells me there is a certain truth in it.

regarding your assumptions about me. except the point that i post here none of this is true but if it helps you to cope with being a 30 year old sth with no job, no family, no kids who is very very insecure about his ageing im fine with that. of course you could be trolling about thaf but i dont think you are the type of person who would do that.

and believe me - i surely wouldnt like to trade lives with you either. not on the picture you present here between the lines.
 
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albert_camus

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He's still young enough to get a few years of causal sex, but he needs to get his surgeries done in time. I don't think he'll be able to consciously learn the social skills needed to get girls, though.

Why do you think being a beta provider will make him happy?! How old will the " wife " be? Late 20s+ ? No thanks. Also, you do know that sexless marriages are very common right? Imagine being obliged to betabux while simultaneously being left to rot in your own marriage.
he is a fucking aspie. is someone seriously thinking that dude will be satisfied with the revision?

he left the path of reason and rationality a long time ago.

a reasonable decision would be to fix the eye area (which really would improve his looks) and then focus on something different in life.
 
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SurgerySoon

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dude you just wrote how many letters to proof what exactly? i even have to admit i just skimmed through it.

sounds like you dont really seem to belief it yourself completely. reads like a self assurance.

and i see how you "ignore" my posts - by writing a 1000 letters replies? seems like you really got hurt by my assumptions (which in opposite to you have some basis) which tells me there is a certain truth in it.

regarding your assumptions about me. except the point that i post here none of this is true but if it helps you to cope with being a 30 year old sth with no job, no family, no kids who is very very insecure about his ageing im fine with that. of course you could be trolling about thaf but i dont think you are the type of person who would do that.

and believe me - i surely wouldnt like to trade lives with you either. not on the picture you present here between the lines.
As I expected, you totally missed the point of my post, which is that even with my pathetic "oldcel" lifestyle, I STILL have more things to focus on in life so as to not have the time or interest to come on here and analyze or give anything close to a shit about someone else's life.

Anyways, go back to daydreaming about surgeries you'll never have the balls (or the money, for that matter) to get so that you can falsely convince yourself that there's still some hope of enjoying some semblance of a sex life with what's left of your twenties. It's just a waste of my time to go back and forth with someone like you on here.

Also, I can't say for sure since you're too much of a pussy to post your face on here, but I'm pretty sure that if I saw what you looked like, I'd be glad that I'm an oldcel who looks like me than a guy in his twenties who looks like you.
 

albert_camus

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As I expected, you totally missed the point of my post, which is that even with my pathetic "oldcel" lifestyle, I STILL have more things to focus on in life so as to not have the time or interest to come on here and analyze or give anything close to a shit about someone else's life.

Anyways, go back to daydreaming about surgeries you'll never have the balls (or the money, for that matter) to get so that you can falsely convince yourself that there's still some hope of enjoying some semblance of a sex life with what's left of your twenties. It's just a waste of my time to go back and forth with someone like you on here.

Also, I can't say for sure since you're too much of a pussy to post your face on here, but I'm pretty sure that if I saw what you looked like, I'd be glad that I'm an oldcel who looks like me than a guy in his twenties who looks like you.
i have to remind myself a 30 year old something MAN? wrote this and not a butthurt, insecure acne ridden teenager

like serious dude. you must notice that yourself.

and obviously i wont post any pictures because i surely dont want my face associated with this site :giggle:
 

SurgerySoon

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i have to remind myself a 30 year old something MAN? wrote this and not a butthurt, insecure acne ridden teenager

like serious dude. you must notice that yourself.

and obviously i wont post any pictures because i surely dont want my face associated with this site :giggle:
All I heard was garbled Eurotrash ramblings that loosely translated into "cope... cope... cope..."
 

SurgerySoon

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You bring up a very good point in your first paragraph. If you get a full facelift at 40 that will make you look 33ish, then that actually wouldn't be a bad idea at all if it's guaranteed to make you look 7 years younger AND you don't mind hooking up with post prime women instead of young females. Your other option is - as you have pointed out - getting one now but with less bang for your buck, meaning looking 28 instead of 25. What complicates matters is that looking 4 years younger now at your current age is much, much more beneficial than looking 7 or 8 years younger at 40, if your ultimate goal is getting women who are mid 20s or younger. You CAN get early 20s females at late 20s - I've seen it and heard about it - but not if you clearly look like you're in your 30s, which is definitely the case if you look 32 or 33. Even mid 20s can be out of reach at that age, because you're still competing with men considerably younger than you.


Anyone who has ever guessed your age at 38 is either cognitively impaired, or is being disingenuous. You don't look anywhere near your mid 30s, let alone looking that old ( 38 ). You look exactly early 30s, and without a foot in your mid 30s, never let anyone make you doubt that. Everyone here, including myself, guessed your age at early 30s. I also said in my very first post addressed to you before posting on this thread that you might pass for 29, but not younger.


I can't really say anything as to the merits of using Retin-A without knowing how much it costs per day and whether you can easily afford it without it putting much of a dent on your finances. If buying it and using it constitute nothing more than a mere after-thought to you, then I don't see the point in thinking about whether or not it would be a better idea to stop using it. Having poor ageing genetics isn't a strong enough argument against it, because you don't actually know how badly you will end up ageing with or without it. If the cost is nothing to worry about, then why not continue using Retin-A? You will not have lost much time, effort or money if it ends up being ineffective.


I'd explore many more options before considering roping. You could always buy sex, that's one thing you can have comfort in if your surgeries don't get you girls. You will still end up looking much better after the eye area overhaul if you get it, so it will not have been for nothing.


Now that you've mentioned escortcellng, isn't it illegal in the US? You'll be risking your career by going that route. Buying sex indirectly through covert contracts like sugardaddying or betabuxing would be much better options, if you avoid pregnancy scares and marriage, of course.
When it comes to facelifts, I think the reason that Surgerymax said I wouldn't get as much bang for my buck by getting one now is because I don't really have any soft tissue descent or laxity anywhere except my midface region. In other words, a full facelift lifts the tissues of the midface, lower third, temples, etc. Since my lower third and forehead/temples aren't sagging, I wouldn't get the full extent of aesthetic improvement from a facelift since it would basically only lift portions of my midface.

It's interesting to note that Dr. Taban said that he will perform another midface lift during my surgery, which should result in my midface being lifted by an even greater number of millimeters than my first surgeon was able to. The first surgeon couldn't lift the right side of my face as much as the left side because of the fact that my right eyeball protrudes by an additional 3 mm, which had the effect of literally "getting in the way" of the midface lift. Since Dr. Taban will be performing orbital decompression to make my eyeballs sit further back in my head, they won't provide the same degree of obstruction and he should be able to get even more lift.

So even though I'm not particularly optimistic, I'll be happy if the second midface lift can at least reverse some of my undereye and general midface laxity.

To answer your question, escortcelling is, in fact, illegal in the US. However, there is a stark difference between soliciting the services of nasty street prostitutes and paying for time with upscale escorts (e.g., those who advertise on sites like Eros). The upscale escorts usually offer their services as time spent providing strictly non-sexual companionship, although both the client and the escort basically have a mutual, unspoken understanding that sex IS involved. My understanding is that it is very uncommon for people to be caught and/or arrested for paying for the services of upscale escorts.

Sugardaddying and/or betabuxxing just isn't going to happen. Not only do I not want to spend that much of my money, but I'm also not interested in having actual day-to-day companionship like you'd get with a GF in an LTR. I much prefer the concept of being able to have the time and freedom to do what I want on a day-to-day basis and just meet up with girls maybe once or twice a week strictly for sex (even if it's just from meeting them at bars, nightclubs, etc.).
 

SurgerySoon

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Believe me I hear you about the expense.

You need to be using a moisturizer, on or off retinoids. On them it is an absolute sin not to use moistuizer. I almost didn't bother asking assuming "of course everyone uses moisturizer" it seems like one of those things that is a given but I am finding more and more that it is an extremely valueable but overlooked part of skincare. I actually find it totally shocking. If I could only use 1 thing for my skin it would be a moisturizer. In fact I would Like to ammend my 1. 2. 3. list above. I took moisturizer as a given but actually moisturizer would be at the top, hands down. It may not do much for antiaging but it makes your skin look and feel better day-to-day.

If you are on 0.1% I recommend continuing with your regular regimen and using a moisturizer. I have used many kinds and have found none were really special. They do not need to be expensive. Look in the skin care ailse at Walmart or chain pharmacy.

If this doesn't help either go down to 0.05% or start applying the 0.1% every other day. You can also mix this with a moisturizer to effectively make it a 0.5% (but are still applying the same amount of fractions of mg's to your face.
Ok, I will look into buying a moisturizer. I just figured it wouldn't make that much of a difference since it doesn't actually affect any genetic pathways that are involved with regulating aging.

BTW, on the topic of paranasal-premaxillary implants -- if you had to take a guess, what percent of the aesthetic results of bimax surgery can be replicated through the use of such implants? Could it be as much as 50%?

Also, is it correct to say that the primary disadvantage of paranasal-premaxillary implants as compared to bimax surgery (in terms of results) is the fact that the implants aren't able to push the upper lip forward?
 

Surgerymax

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Ok, I will look into buying a moisturizer. I just figured it wouldn't make that much of a difference since it doesn't actually affect any genetic pathways that are involved with regulating aging.

BTW, on the topic of paranasal-premaxillary implants -- if you had to take a guess, what percent of the aesthetic results of bimax surgery can be replicated through the use of such implants? Could it be as much as 50%?

Also, is it correct to say that the primary disadvantage of paranasal-premaxillary implants as compared to bimax surgery (in terms of results) is the fact that the implants aren't able to push the upper lip forward?
Maybe. a 5mm paranasal implant would move the premaxilla forward as much as a 5mm LeFort I... But that is why paranasal implants usually stop at about 5mm. It would look weird any bigger because it leaves the mouth behind. Where your ideal aesthetic bimax would probably be more like 10mm.

Yes exactly.
 

SurgerySoon

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Maybe. a 5mm paranasal implant would move the premaxilla forward as much as a 5mm LeFort I... But that is why paranasal implants usually stop at about 5mm. It would look weird any bigger because it leaves the mouth behind. Where your ideal aesthetic bimax would probably be more like 10mm.

Yes exactly.
Thanks. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the extra money and more arduous recovery would be worth the additional augmentation I'd get from bimax surgery. In other words, if my recession isn't mild enough that even just an additional 5 mm of forward projection would make a significant difference, is it worth it undergoing more invasive bimax surgery to get the full 10 mm of forward projection?

Also, two other quick questions, if you don't mind: 1.) Would paranasal/premaxillary implants make my nose look bigger or over-projected? Someone told me it would, so that's a concern; 2.) Would I need more chin projection if I got an additional 4-5 mm of maxillary projection from the paranasal/premaxillary implants?
 

Surgerymax

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Thanks. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the extra money and more arduous recovery would be worth the additional augmentation I'd get from bimax surgery. In other words, if my recession isn't mild enough that even just an additional 5 mm of forward projection would make a significant difference, is it worth it undergoing more invasive bimax surgery to get the full 10 mm of forward projection?

Also, two other quick questions, if you don't mind: 1.) Would paranasal/premaxillary implants make my nose look bigger or over-projected? Someone told me it would, so that's a concern; 2.) Would I need more chin projection if I got an additional 4-5 mm of maxillary projection from the paranasal/premaxillary implants?
Aesthetically Yes I do think it is worth it and would take you to your goals once and for all. If cost was no issue I would definitely say go for it. Unfortunately this is an expensive procedure (35-60K) in most countries. Insurance does not usually cover it for aesthetic reasons. That is about 1 year's middle-class salary or you could think of it as the cost of a decent new car.

The invasiveness turns a lot of people off but I think that is frankly because of a few moaners. Yes it will be uncomfortable for a little while and you may have some numbness for quite a while in some areas. Most people come through jaw surgery and say the recovery was really hyped up to be more than it was.

It actually won't really make the nose look bigger per se but it will raise the nasolabial angle some. It justifies a few extra mm of chin projection but as Ive said adding any more than a few mm of chin projection is going to look unnatural on a recessed mandible.
 

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Aesthetically Yes I do think it is worth it and would take you to your goals once and for all. If cost was no issue I would definitely say go for it. Unfortunately this is an expensive procedure (35-60K) in most countries. Insurance does not usually cover it for aesthetic reasons. That is about 1 year's middle-class salary or you could think of it as the cost of a decent new car.

The invasiveness turns a lot of people off but I think that is frankly because of a few moaners. Yes it will be uncomfortable for a little while and you may have some numbness for quite a while in some areas. Most people come through jaw surgery and say the recovery was really hyped up to be more than it was.

It actually won't really make the nose look bigger per se but it will raise the nasolabial angle some. It justifies a few extra mm of chin projection but as Ive said adding any more than a few mm of chin projection is going to look unnatural on a recessed mandible.
Yeah, I'm afraid I just can't afford bimax surgery at those prices right now. I honestly am not even worried about the recovery; it's literally just the financial cost. That is part of the dilemma over whether or not to just get the rest of the wraparound jaw implant put in (possibly along with paranasal/premaxillary implants as well) by Dr. Y, or to wait and do bimax surgery in a few years when I can afford to do it and then see about getting a wraparound jaw implant. The issue with the latter scenario is that Dr. Y will probably be retired by the time I'm able to afford bimax surgery, which means I'd be basically forfeiting the wraparound jaw implant I already paid to have designed and manufactured.

So if I do decide to just go back to Dr. Y in a few months to have the rest of the wraparound implant placed along with maybe paranasal/premaxillary implants as well, do you think I will actually *need* to have my chin implant revised to add a few extra mm? In other words, will the paranasal/premaxillary implants make my chin look legitimately short and in need of additional augmentation?

BTW, is a raised nasolabial angle a bad thing?
 

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Yeah, I'm afraid I just can't afford bimax surgery at those prices right now. I honestly am not even worried about the recovery; it's literally just the financial cost. That is part of the dilemma over whether or not to just get the rest of the wraparound jaw implant put in (possibly along with paranasal/premaxillary implants as well) by Dr. Y, or to wait and do bimax surgery in a few years when I can afford to do it and then see about getting a wraparound jaw implant. 1. The issue with the latter scenario is that Dr. Y will probably be retired by the time I'm able to afford bimax surgery, which means I'd be basically forfeiting the wraparound jaw implant I already paid to have designed and manufactured.

So if I do decide to just go back to Dr. Y in a few months to have the rest of the wraparound implant placed along with maybe paranasal/premaxillary implants as well, 2. do you think I will actually *need* to have my chin implant revised to add a few extra mm? In other words, will the paranasal/premaxillary implants make my chin look legitimately short and in need of additional augmentation?

3. BTW, is a raised nasolabial angle a bad thing?

1. Sometimes doctors will transfer patients to a new doctor, especially if they have practice partners but I am pretty sure he has a solo practice. You could ask him about what would happen in that scenerio.
2. No not needed, but allowabe.
3. No a slight obtuse nasolabial angle (slightly upturned nose) is a nice featured and considered a benefit of a high le fort I or paransal augmentation, not a trade-off. (Unless someone already has a high nasolabial angle where further augmentation will create an extreme nasolabial angle "pig nose" which you don't have that problem.)
 

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1. Sometimes doctors will transfer patients to a new doctor, especially if they have practice partners but I am pretty sure he has a solo practice. You could ask him about what would happen in that scenerio.
2. No not needed, but allowabe.
3. No a slight obtuse nasolabial angle (slightly upturned nose) is a nice featured and considered a benefit of a high le fort I or paransal augmentation, not a trade-off. (Unless someone already has a high nasolabial angle where further augmentation will create an extreme nasolabial angle "pig nose" which you don't have that problem.)
Thanks. I guess that it's just going to come down to whether or not I will be making a mistake by going for getting the rest of the jaw implant + paranasal/premaxillary implants in the sense that I might only be satisfied by getting legit double jaw surgery (of course, either surgical route would be followed by eye area surgery). I would like to convince myself that the results I'd get from getting the rest of my wraparound implant placed + paranasal/premaxillary implants + eye area overhaul surgery will be "good enough" to me, but I just don't know.
 

1111

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Thanks. I guess that it's just going to come down to whether or not I will be making a mistake by going for getting the rest of the jaw implant + paranasal/premaxillary implants in the sense that I might only be satisfied by getting legit double jaw surgery (of course, either surgical route would be followed by eye area surgery). I would like to convince myself that the results I'd get from getting the rest of my wraparound implant placed + paranasal/premaxillary implants + eye area overhaul surgery will be "good enough" to me, but I just don't know.
Do you have more side profile pictures? I am not convinced that double jaw would maintain your harmony and significantly improve your looks, but it may be possible.

I had jaw surgery several years ago for a pretty severe malocclusion, I had a good result, but I did have significant sagging in my cheeks afterwards, due to a combination of poor midface bone structure and the cheek tissue being severed from the bone during surgery. I have also noticed this effect on other jaw surgery before and afters. Several years later I had custom cheek implants (similar to yours but covered a larger area) with a midface lift which, combined with reducing body fat significantly, reduced the sagging. You can PM me if you want to know more about my designs or the surgeries.

As for my nose, it had a "hook" shape previously, the Lefort pushed the base forward a bit to give a straighter appearance. I am curious to see your profile to see what your nose looks like now.

I'm also surprised you weren't using moisturizer, dehydrated skin makes you look significantly older and damages your skin in the long run.

Lastly, I do really think that lowering your body fat will help your cheek implants really stand out and make you look younger. It would also reduce the appearance of any sagging that you may have. At the very least, it will allow you to visualize your facial structure better before deciding on what surgeries you will pursue. I know when I was trying to decide on cheek implants, I was thinking of getting significantly more augmentation before I lost around 10 lbs of fat, after which I ended up deciding on a smaller design, which I'm now glad I did.
 

1111

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Oh and also, you mentioned wanting a look like Henry Cavill's, I actually think your cheekbones protrude quite a bit more than his and are much "sharper" as in the images below.
 

kota

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I had jaw surgery several years ago for a pretty severe malocclusion, I had a good result, but I did have significant sagging in my cheeks afterwards, due to a combination of poor midface bone structure and the cheek tissue being severed from the bone during surgery. I have also noticed this effect on other jaw surgery before and afters. Several years later I had custom cheek implants (similar to yours but covered a larger area) with a midface lift which, combined with reducing body fat significantly, reduced the sagging. You can PM me if you want to know more about my designs or the surgeries.
I tried PMing you as I don't want to hijack the thread but it doesn't seem possible, I think you need 50 posts first.

So just to clarify, you had maxilla advancement with lefort 1 and got sagging cheeks from it? It would be good to learn more about this and see any examples. I'm currently consulting about jaw surgery and was under the impression that advancing the bones would increase soft tissue support and reduce sagging (or perhaps at least nasolabial folds) slightly.

@Surgerymax any thoughts on this issue?
 

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I tried PMing you as I don't want to hijack the thread but it doesn't seem possible, I think you need 50 posts first.

So just to clarify, you had maxilla advancement with lefort 1 and got sagging cheeks from it? It would be good to learn more about this and see any examples. I'm currently consulting about jaw surgery and was under the impression that advancing the bones would increase soft tissue support and reduce sagging (or perhaps at least nasolabial folds) slightly.

@Surgerymax any thoughts on this issue?
You can see it a bit in the below images, especially in the 3/4th view, you can see that the hollowness right next to the mouth area was lost and the lower cheeks seem fuller.

I had asked Dr. Eppley about this, he said that during a Lefort 1 the muscles and tendons that attach in the area are severed, leading to loss of soft tissue attachment. He said that this can be prevented with something called a V-Y closure technique, which I had never heard of, but it seems to be legit:




Another example, look at the side view where the cheek and the mouth meet and you can see some fullness and sagging in the after, although this case is more subtle. I actually have noticed this in a lot of Lefort 1 before and afters, although in most cases you don't see it unless you are looking for it.

gallery03.jpg
 

kota

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You can see it a bit in the below images, especially in the 3/4th view, you can see that the hollowness right next to the mouth area was lost and the lower cheeks seem fuller.

I had asked Dr. Eppley about this, he said that during a Lefort 1 the muscles and tendons that attach in the area are severed, leading to loss of soft tissue attachment. He said that this can be prevented with something called a V-Y closure technique, which I had never heard of, but it seems to be legit:




Another example, look at the side view where the cheek and the mouth meet and you can see some fullness and sagging in the after, although this case is more subtle. I actually have noticed this in a lot of Lefort 1 before and afters, although in most cases you don't see it unless you are looking for it.

View attachment 3977
Thanks for the explanation and examples. I have seen these pics before and noticed the area getting fuller but just imagined it was coming from the advancement of underlying bones pushing the soft tissues forward. In your experience, does the soft tissue sagging mean that the soft tissues just bulge out or actually drop downwards? If the latter it sounds like this could have an ageing effect on the face.