SurgerySoon

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@key21, do you agree with lolfags that looks ascension isn't really possible for me? Keep in mind, I'm willing to go further in terms of changing my looks than most people in terms of getting traumatic craniofacial surgery with soft tissue resuspension, etc.
 

KEy21

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SurgerySoon said:
@key21, do you agree with lolfags that looks ascension isn't really possible for me? Keep in mind, I'm willing to go further in terms of changing my looks than most people in terms of getting traumatic craniofacial surgery with soft tissue resuspension, etc.
As I’ve said before, from an aesthetic and PSL standpoint if you receive an adequate implant to the midface then your ratings will objectively go up. There is absolutely no denying that. The only issue would be trying to weigh and figure out how much a PSL rating will translate into the actual world. As far as we know so far, they translate pretty well. I think undoubtedly, the hollows being treated by an implant will help a lot. 

As far as the midface lift. I think it’s an extremely smart idea. It’s no secret that you could benefit highly from one. Even I could benefit from one at this stage and have undereye hollows and id even go as far as saying MOST people in their mid 20’s and beyond could benefit from one in some form or another. It’s risky with a bad surgeon, however you have an experienced one that will be conservative and give you an adequate result.

Yes, the truth is you will never be Henry Cavil. Neither will I, lolfags or headsup either. And yes, your lack of slaying as it seems from your pictures had less to do with your looks as they’re adequate enough for a happy life opposed to your lack of neurotypical behavior in your youth.

However these things are two completely separate things all together. Just because you had a lack of neurotypical behavior in your 20’s, or something inhibited you from do “X, Y or Z” doesn’t mean that these surgeries won’t benefit you in your goal of becoming more attractive. If you have a surplus of money, there’s no reason you can’t act the way lolfags is describing after your procedures while you look better. You have bad genetics for aging as your midface is flat and you don’t have adequate bones to compensate. I think it’s a noble decision to fix these things as you know they’re only gonna get worse.


So I’d still say go for it. You’re most likely going to move up around 0.5PSL to 0.75PSL at the very MOST. That’s unless you add lower third surgery and implants. I don’t think you’ll turn into a hyperslayer personally, but I think you’ll be objectively more appealing than you are now. 0.5-0.75PSL passes millions of men on the planet. So if it only takes about 20k or so to do that, I’d say it’s worth for sure as you’d be spending the money to compensate in other ways.

That’s just my take on the situation.
 

SurgerySoon

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KEy21 said:
SurgerySoon said:
@key21, do you agree with lolfags that looks ascension isn't really possible for me? Keep in mind, I'm willing to go further in terms of changing my looks than most people in terms of getting traumatic craniofacial surgery with soft tissue resuspension, etc.
As I’ve said before, from an aesthetic and PSL standpoint if you receive an adequate implant to the midface then your ratings will objectively go up. There is absolutely no denying that. The only issue would be trying to weigh and figure out how much a PSL rating will translate into the actual world. As far as we know so far, they translate pretty well. I think undoubtedly, the hollows being treated by an implant will help a lot. 

As far as the midface lift. I think it’s an extremely smart idea. It’s no secret that you could benefit highly from one. Even I could benefit from one at this stage and have undereye hollows and id even go as far as saying MOST people in their mid 20’s and beyond could benefit from one in some form or another. It’s risky with a bad surgeon, however you have an experienced one that will be conservative and give you an adequate result.

Yes, the truth is you will never be Henry Cavil. Neither will I, lolfags or headsup either. And yes, your lack of slaying as it seems from your pictures had less to do with your looks as they’re adequate enough for a happy life opposed to your lack of neurotypical behavior in your youth.

However these things are two completely separate things all together. Just because you had a lack of neurotypical behavior in your 20’s, or something inhibited you from do “X, Y or Z” doesn’t mean that these surgeries won’t benefit you in your goal of becoming more attractive. If you have a surplus of money, there’s no reason you can’t act the way lolfags is describing after your procedures while you look better. You have bad genetics for aging as your midface is flat and you don’t have adequate bones to compensate. I think it’s a noble decision to fix these things as you know they’re only gonna get worse.


So I’d still say go for it. You’re most likely going to move up around 0.5PSL to 0.75PSL at the very MOST. That’s unless you add lower third surgery and implants. I don’t think you’ll turn into a hyperslayer personally, but I think you’ll be objectively more appealing than you are now. 0.5-0.75PSL passes millions of men on the planet. So if it only takes about 20k or so to do that, I’d say it’s worth for sure as you’d be spending the money to compensate in other ways.

That’s just my take on the situation.

Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the midface implants+midface lift+submental lipectomy probably won't even give me a full 1 point PSL boost, but I guess that's the way it is. That is why I mentioned in my previous post that I'm willing to pursue more dramatic procedures to not just become a better-looking version of myself, but to literally change my overall "look" to that of a completely different guy entirely. I literally want to look like a totally different person, and as time goes on, I'm willing to take much more significant risks to achieve that goal.

I definitely wouldn't say that I have a surplus of money; however, I'm willing to spend years (I'm talking 7-8+) financing these surgeries. I'm even putting my car up as collateral to get a lower interest rate on the loan I'll be taking out to pay for these surgeries. 

To be honest, the fact that you mentioned that Yaremchuk is conservative when it comes to implants and midface lifts is, ironically, a factor that actually makes me apprehensive about going to him. As I said above, I want a dramatic change to my looks, not just a conservative reversal of the early signs of aging that have become more noticeable over the last few years. In other words, I don't want to look like a younger, "more refreshed" version of my younger self -- I want to look like a more attractive person than I ever was at any point in my life.

You said something in your previous post that really stuck out to me, simply because I hear a variation of it from essentially everyone I talk to (including girls) about my looks, and that's where you said that my looks were "adequate enough." It seems like everyone I talk to says there's "nothing wrong" with my looks, and yet at the same time, they agree that I'm not good-looking enough to be the kind of guy that hooks up with girls at clubs/bars. 


In fact, I know a girl who spent much of her 20's hooking up with guys she'd meet at clubs/bars every single weekend, and she tells me, "You look just fine." However, at the same time, she acknowledges that I'm not one of the attractive "club guys" who has the looks to hook-up with attractive girls at clubs/bars. So how can a girl tell me I look "just fine" and that I "don't need surgery," but then acknowledge at the same time that I'm not attractive enough to get non-LTR action from girls? 

Just curious... when you say you can't imagine me becoming a slayer, why is that? Or to state the question another way, what specific facial traits (even if improved via implants/midface lift) are holding me back from becoming even a slayer "lite?" Aside from the glaring, obvious aesthetic issues (e.g., eye area, flat midface), is it simply a matter of the ratios/proportions just not quite being "there," in regards to the various "rules" that have been discovered by psych researchers that seem to dictate whether a face is deemed attractive or not (for example -- the distance between feature A and feature B should be half the distance between feature C and feature D, and so on)?

The thing is, the more I hear from the girls I know IRL about the ONS/hookup experiences they had during their 20s, and the more I hear about how most of the encounters were basically zero-effort endeavors for the guys they chose (since the girls selected them largely on the basis of looks), the more I desperately want to become a guy who is desired by females on the basis of looks/physical attraction.

In other words, I don't want to continue being a guy who is considered by girls to be a male who at least "passes their looks threshold," but at the same time isn't a guy who is attractive enough such that his looks seal the deal on their own. Instead, I want to become (even if just to a few girls) a guy that is considered desirable on the BASIS of looks. Do you get what I mean? And do you think this is even remotely possible to achieve (hence why I called it "slayer lite" above)? Or are my facial aesthetics just fundamentally too far "off" in a mathematical/proportion sense to even come close to becoming one of these guys, even if I undergo major craniofacial reconstructive surgery (which I'm planning to talk more with Yaremchuk about soon)?

Thanks @key21
 

KEy21

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SurgerySoon said:
KEy21 said:
As I’ve said before, from an aesthetic and PSL standpoint if you receive an adequate implant to the midface then your ratings will objectively go up. There is absolutely no denying that. The only issue would be trying to weigh and figure out how much a PSL rating will translate into the actual world. As far as we know so far, they translate pretty well. I think undoubtedly, the hollows being treated by an implant will help a lot. 

As far as the midface lift. I think it’s an extremely smart idea. It’s no secret that you could benefit highly from one. Even I could benefit from one at this stage and have undereye hollows and id even go as far as saying MOST people in their mid 20’s and beyond could benefit from one in some form or another. It’s risky with a bad surgeon, however you have an experienced one that will be conservative and give you an adequate result.

Yes, the truth is you will never be Henry Cavil. Neither will I, lolfags or headsup either. And yes, your lack of slaying as it seems from your pictures had less to do with your looks as they’re adequate enough for a happy life opposed to your lack of neurotypical behavior in your youth.

However these things are two completely separate things all together. Just because you had a lack of neurotypical behavior in your 20’s, or something inhibited you from do “X, Y or Z” doesn’t mean that these surgeries won’t benefit you in your goal of becoming more attractive. If you have a surplus of money, there’s no reason you can’t act the way lolfags is describing after your procedures while you look better. You have bad genetics for aging as your midface is flat and you don’t have adequate bones to compensate. I think it’s a noble decision to fix these things as you know they’re only gonna get worse.


So I’d still say go for it. You’re most likely going to move up around 0.5PSL to 0.75PSL at the very MOST. That’s unless you add lower third surgery and implants. I don’t think you’ll turn into a hyperslayer personally, but I think you’ll be objectively more appealing than you are now. 0.5-0.75PSL passes millions of men on the planet. So if it only takes about 20k or so to do that, I’d say it’s worth for sure as you’d be spending the money to compensate in other ways.

That’s just my take on the situation.

Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the midface implants+midface lift+submental lipectomy probably won't even give me a full 1 point PSL boost, but I guess that's the way it is. That is why I mentioned in my previous post that I'm willing to pursue more dramatic procedures to not just become a better-looking version of myself, but to literally change my overall "look" to that of a completely different guy entirely. I literally want to look like a totally different person, and as time goes on, I'm willing to take much more significant risks to achieve that goal.

I definitely wouldn't say that I have a surplus of money; however, I'm willing to spend years (I'm talking 7-8+) financing these surgeries. I'm even putting my car up as collateral to get a lower interest rate on the loan I'll be taking out to pay for these surgeries. 

To be honest, the fact that you mentioned that Yaremchuk is conservative when it comes to implants and midface lifts is, ironically, a factor that actually makes me apprehensive about going to him. As I said above, I want a dramatic change to my looks, not just a conservative reversal of the early signs of aging that have become more noticeable over the last few years. In other words, I don't want to look like a younger, "more refreshed" version of my younger self -- I want to look like a more attractive person than I ever was at any point in my life.

You said something in your previous post that really stuck out to me, simply because I hear a variation of it from essentially everyone I talk to (including girls) about my looks, and that's where you said that my looks were "adequate enough." It seems like everyone I talk to says there's "nothing wrong" with my looks, and yet at the same time, they agree that I'm not good-looking enough to be the kind of guy that hooks up with girls at clubs/bars. 


In fact, I know a girl who spent much of her 20's hooking up with guys she'd meet at clubs/bars every single weekend, and she tells me, "You look just fine." However, at the same time, she acknowledges that I'm not one of the attractive "club guys" who has the looks to hook-up with attractive girls at clubs/bars. So how can a girl tell me I look "just fine" and that I "don't need surgery," but then acknowledge at the same time that I'm not attractive enough to get non-LTR action from girls? 

Just curious... when you say you can't imagine me becoming a slayer, why is that? Or to state the question another way, what specific facial traits (even if improved via implants/midface lift) are holding me back from becoming even a slayer "lite?" Aside from the glaring, obvious aesthetic issues (e.g., eye area, flat midface), is it simply a matter of the ratios/proportions just not quite being "there," in regards to the various "rules" that have been discovered by psych researchers that seem to dictate whether a face is deemed attractive or not (for example -- the distance between feature A and feature B should be half the distance between feature C and feature D, and so on)?

The thing is, the more I hear from the girls I know IRL about the ONS/hookup experiences they had during their 20s, and the more I hear about how most of the encounters were basically zero-effort endeavors for the guys they chose (since the girls selected them largely on the basis of looks), the more I desperately want to become a guy who is desired by females on the basis of looks/physical attraction.

In other words, I don't want to continue being a guy who is considered by girls to be a male who at least "passes their looks threshold," but at the same time isn't a guy who is attractive enough such that his looks seal the deal on their own. Instead, I want to become (even if just to a few girls) a guy that is considered desirable on the BASIS of looks. Do you get what I mean? And do you think this is even remotely possible to achieve (hence why I called it "slayer lite" above)? Or are my facial aesthetics just fundamentally too far "off" in a mathematical/proportion sense to even come close to becoming one of these guys, even if I undergo major craniofacial reconstructive surgery (which I'm planning to talk more with Yaremchuk about soon)?

Thanks @key21
Then that’s far different. You can look into wraparounds and similar implants for a dom and masculine lower third with Eppley but you’ll have to take the risks associated and know that if you think it looks too uncanny valley that you’ll have to remove it and it will most likely cost a lot as well.

You can also look into specific zygomatic implants or go with something like doubejaw as with as much advancement as possible. If you’re serious about it and won’t have an identity crisis there is a far higher looksmaxxing ceiling but the risks both looks and side effect wise increase accordingly.
 Not to mention the costs.

The point was to demonstrate that most people in your looks range have had decent sex lives by your age and their sex lives are still usually alright. I understand the concept of the blackpill and the advantages it can have but at the end of the day you are adequate enough to have had more sex than you did by your age. But that’s not here nor there..if the goal is to become a slayer you also would want to do something like fat grafting or injections on the upper eyelids for hooded eyes after 
Your procedures are done. Then onto something like fillers for nasal folds and skin care after. 

There is a long list that needs to be done if you want to be in the slayer tier. This is not to mention hairline lowering and other things. It’s a lot of work, for someone who can already get laid after a couple of the surgeries.
 

SurgerySoon

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KEy21 said:
SurgerySoon said:
Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the midface implants+midface lift+submental lipectomy probably won't even give me a full 1 point PSL boost, but I guess that's the way it is. That is why I mentioned in my previous post that I'm willing to pursue more dramatic procedures to not just become a better-looking version of myself, but to literally change my overall "look" to that of a completely different guy entirely. I literally want to look like a totally different person, and as time goes on, I'm willing to take much more significant risks to achieve that goal.

I definitely wouldn't say that I have a surplus of money; however, I'm willing to spend years (I'm talking 7-8+) financing these surgeries. I'm even putting my car up as collateral to get a lower interest rate on the loan I'll be taking out to pay for these surgeries. 

To be honest, the fact that you mentioned that Yaremchuk is conservative when it comes to implants and midface lifts is, ironically, a factor that actually makes me apprehensive about going to him. As I said above, I want a dramatic change to my looks, not just a conservative reversal of the early signs of aging that have become more noticeable over the last few years. In other words, I don't want to look like a younger, "more refreshed" version of my younger self -- I want to look like a more attractive person than I ever was at any point in my life.

You said something in your previous post that really stuck out to me, simply because I hear a variation of it from essentially everyone I talk to (including girls) about my looks, and that's where you said that my looks were "adequate enough." It seems like everyone I talk to says there's "nothing wrong" with my looks, and yet at the same time, they agree that I'm not good-looking enough to be the kind of guy that hooks up with girls at clubs/bars. 


In fact, I know a girl who spent much of her 20's hooking up with guys she'd meet at clubs/bars every single weekend, and she tells me, "You look just fine." However, at the same time, she acknowledges that I'm not one of the attractive "club guys" who has the looks to hook-up with attractive girls at clubs/bars. So how can a girl tell me I look "just fine" and that I "don't need surgery," but then acknowledge at the same time that I'm not attractive enough to get non-LTR action from girls? 

Just curious... when you say you can't imagine me becoming a slayer, why is that? Or to state the question another way, what specific facial traits (even if improved via implants/midface lift) are holding me back from becoming even a slayer "lite?" Aside from the glaring, obvious aesthetic issues (e.g., eye area, flat midface), is it simply a matter of the ratios/proportions just not quite being "there," in regards to the various "rules" that have been discovered by psych researchers that seem to dictate whether a face is deemed attractive or not (for example -- the distance between feature A and feature B should be half the distance between feature C and feature D, and so on)?

The thing is, the more I hear from the girls I know IRL about the ONS/hookup experiences they had during their 20s, and the more I hear about how most of the encounters were basically zero-effort endeavors for the guys they chose (since the girls selected them largely on the basis of looks), the more I desperately want to become a guy who is desired by females on the basis of looks/physical attraction.

In other words, I don't want to continue being a guy who is considered by girls to be a male who at least "passes their looks threshold," but at the same time isn't a guy who is attractive enough such that his looks seal the deal on their own. Instead, I want to become (even if just to a few girls) a guy that is considered desirable on the BASIS of looks. Do you get what I mean? And do you think this is even remotely possible to achieve (hence why I called it "slayer lite" above)? Or are my facial aesthetics just fundamentally too far "off" in a mathematical/proportion sense to even come close to becoming one of these guys, even if I undergo major craniofacial reconstructive surgery (which I'm planning to talk more with Yaremchuk about soon)?

Thanks @key21
Then that’s far different. You can look into wraparounds and similar implants for a dom and masculine lower third with Eppley but you’ll have to take the risks associated and know that if you think it looks too uncanny valley that you’ll have to remove it and it will most likely cost a lot as well.

You can also look into specific zygomatic implants or go with something like doubejaw as with as much advancement as possible. If you’re serious about it and won’t have an identity crisis there is a far higher looksmaxxing ceiling but the risks both looks and side effect wise increase accordingly.
 Not to mention the costs.

The point was to demonstrate that most people in your looks range have had decent sex lives by your age and their sex lives are still usually alright. I understand the concept of the blackpill and the advantages it can have but at the end of the day you are adequate enough to have had more sex than you did by your age. But that’s not here nor there..if the goal is to become a slayer you also would want to do something like fat grafting or injections on the upper eyelids for hooded eyes after 
Your procedures are done. Then onto something like fillers for nasal folds and skin care after. 

There is a long list that needs to be done if you want to be in the slayer tier. This is not to mention hairline lowering and other things. It’s a lot of work, for someone who can already get laid after a couple of the surgeries.

Thanks again for the feedback @key21. I appreciate the input you've given me regarding my impending looksmaxxing ascension. 

It's hard to explain, but ever since I turned 30 last year, dramatically improving my looks and getting as close as possible to becoming a slayer has literally become the foremost goal to achieve in my mind. I knew I wanted to change my looks back in 2013, but back then, my motivation was "to get more chiseled and defined," for the most part. In recent years, however, redpill/blackpill theory has become the driving motivational force behind what has become my desire to change the fundamental nature of how I look.

I am absolutely never going to have kids and I'm beyond 99% certain that I won't ever get married (this is one reason as to why I want to become a slayer), so I figure that while most guys will eventually pour time/money/resources into raising a bunch of low-life children, I will instead splurge on doing whatever it takes to make myself the most physically attractive male possible so that I can enter my 30s in something of a state of slayerdom.

To respond to a few of the points you made -- you suggested looking into getting specific zygomatic implants after I get the custom midface implant. It's kind of confusing, but "midface implant" is just Yaremchuk's term for a custom, CT-designed cheek/zygomatic/general midface implant. In other words, when you pay for custom implant surgery with Dr. Y, he designs an implant that augments your entire midface, including the zygomatic region, anterior malar area, orbital rims/tear troughs, and other components of the maxilla. This is why he calls it a "midface implant" as opposed to just "cheek implants" -- yes, it augments the cheeks, but it literally augments any/all areas of the midface that the patient requests (or which are otherwise deficient). 

So in other words, once I get the custom midface implant surgery, I literally shouldn't need to pursue a single additional surgery of the midface region unless Dr. Y just totally fucks my shit up. 

On the topic of nasolabial folds and skincare -- the midface lift supposedly eliminates (or at least largely minimizes) the appearance of nasolabial folds, so that's another benefit to getting the midface lift. Also, I started using Retin-A back in July, although most of the pics I posted were taken prior to that. I think the only pictures I've posted that were taken after I started applying Retin-A are the ones from a few days ago, where I make reference to the ogee curve. Maybe I should start doing glycolic acid peels as well?

After I get my surgeries, I will be 100% open to getting filler injections to "tweak" the look on an as-needed basis. I'm especially curious to see how it improves my look to get filler injections to my brow ridge. I would definitely try fillers in this area before I get permanent implant surgery. I may also get fillers injected into my chin if I decide not to get a chin implant with Dr. Y.

I agree that filler injections to my upper eyelids to create hooding would be a good idea. I have also heard that Botox can be injected into the medial brow to create more of a hooded effect.

I'm fairly certain that I will eventually opt for some combination of chin/jaw surgery. I'm thinking double jaw surgery might be overkill (but maybe not). Instead, I would most likely opt for jaw implants that are designed to lower the jaw angles (Eppley actually just designed and released such an implant through Implantech recently), along with a square chin implant. Not sure if a full wraparound implant would be necessary or not, depending on whether jaw angle-lowering implants alone can be effective on their own.

It's funny about the hairline -- my hairline has actually barely receded thus far. I have simply had a very strong widow's peak since childhood. Of course, now that I'm in my thirties and tend to look my age to most people (girls especially) with my shallow midface, this "natural widow's peak" basically comes across as a typical case of early-stage MPB. It seems like any form of hairline surgery is just insanely expensive, and I'd like to convince myself that it's not "that important" (or at least not as important as the bone structure-based elements), so I'm not sure if I'll ever be in a position to pay for this kind of surgery or not. 

To be quite honest with you -- the more I think about the reality that there are guys out there who work a standard M-F/9A-5P job who are so good-looking that by early Friday afternoon, their thought process becomes some variation of, "Well, I guess I'll hit the gym for an hour or so after work, get a bite to eat, and then figure out which club I'm going to go pick up my girl of the week at," the more motivated I become to make it my life goal to ascend, even if it's just to slayer-lite status. 

Get this: the girl I mentioned in my previous post (the serial hookup fiend) said she hooked up with a guy who was so hot that she actually came to regret it because of how shitty the sex was. She said he literally put in zero effort and treated the whole experience like it was his morning work commute or something similarly routine. But here's the gut-wrenching blackpill for you: she said she doesn't totally regret the experience of fucking him, because the simple fact of knowing that a male on such an extreme level of physical attractiveness chose HER to be his weekly ONS gave her an incredible ego boost. After all, he could have literally chosen to hook up with almost any other girl in the club that night, so the fact that he chose her was reason enough to justify the hookup.

You guys might think you've tasted the blackpill, but if I screenshotted some of the FB conversations I've had with this girl and posted them here, some of you would undoubtedly be driven to just short of committing suicide after catching a glimpse of the lifestyle that some guys are privvy to.

For me, the motivation to become one of those guys is so strong that I am literally considering applying to another gradschool program so that I can live in a large city with lots of clubs/bars so that I can make the most of what I hope will be my totally new look. Yes, this shit is so important to me that I'm willing to put off entering legit adulthood to indulge in it (or get as close as I possibly can to doing so). 

Anyways...

So would you agree that this is a good shortlist of procedures I will need to undergo in order to achieve full slayer status (or at least slayer-lite status)?:

- Midface implant (includes malar/zygomatic/orbital rim augmentation, making eyes more deep-set)
- Midface lift (includes soft tissue resuspension, lower eyelid reshaping, reshaping soft tissues to create a soft tissue envelope that more closely conforms to attractiveness standards)
- Some form of surgery to lower (but not necessarily widen) lower jaw
- Some form of surgery to augment chin to increase projection and enhance squareness
- Submental lipectomy 

Thanks again
 
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SurgerySoon said:
Thanks for the analysis, @headsupdisplay. So just to clarify a few points -- in your post, you mentioned that you think I should get cheek implants, and that I should also get fillers injected into my undereye area. The good news is that the custom CT-designed midface implant is actually a combined cheek/orbital rim implant, so it will augment both my cheeks as well as my undereyes. This means that not only will my cheekbones be improved, but my undereye area (possibly temples as well) will no longer have any hollowing or evidence of a negative vector orbit. The eyes will look more deep-set as well.

Also, the midface lift will result in my lower eyelids being lifted and re-positioned at a higher level so that the lower eyelids will be flatter and more straight-across, sort of like what MM's have (although I don't want squinty-ass eyes by Barrett; I don't care what girls think of him). This will eliminate all sceleral exposure underneath my pupils. Also, from what I've read, a midface lift compliments cheek implants to create more of a "high cheekbone," MM-style look.

I don't think my surgeon does canthoplasties, but he's pretty well-known for doing a similar surgery called a canthopexy. I'm not sure if he's planning on doing a canthopexy during my surgery, though. The midface lift is included in the cost of the custom midface implant, so a canthopexy if needed might be included as well. I just don't want to get too much of a positive canthal tilt since I think it would look weird on my face.

Regarding jaw implants -- I definitely would like to get jaw implants at some point in the future to lower my jaw angles, but cost is just too much of a factor right now. At this point I want to get procedures to mitigate my most glaring aesthetic detractor, and I'm pretty sure this is my midface, which is basically recessed. If I can scrape together enough money, I'll get a custom chin implant as well.

BTW, I have an interesting question for you. Ever since I became an adult, I have wanted to be one of those guys who can show up to a club/bar on a Friday or Saturday night and practically have his pick of a hot (or at least above average) girl to take home and fuck. However, even though I'm pretty sure I'll get SOME improvement from these surgeries, I just can't see myself ever having that overall "attractive male" look, where all the features come together to make for a face that is perceived by women as being highly attractive. 

Would you agree with this assessment? If so, why is that the case? Is it a fundamental issue of the millimeter-based proportions of my face just not coming together to form kinds of the ratios/proportions that stimulate the parts of the human female brain that stimulate sexual attraction?
ratios are a myth

but no, if you are good looking by the end of this (if you correct all the flaws that you can (hair, eyes, lips, skin, etc) and get a nice body you will) then you will be able to get girls
people are good looking because they have specific individual traits. As long as you also have those traits, you will be good looking as well
 

SurgerySoon

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headsupdisplay said:
SurgerySoon said:
Thanks for the analysis, @headsupdisplay. So just to clarify a few points -- in your post, you mentioned that you think I should get cheek implants, and that I should also get fillers injected into my undereye area. The good news is that the custom CT-designed midface implant is actually a combined cheek/orbital rim implant, so it will augment both my cheeks as well as my undereyes. This means that not only will my cheekbones be improved, but my undereye area (possibly temples as well) will no longer have any hollowing or evidence of a negative vector orbit. The eyes will look more deep-set as well.

Also, the midface lift will result in my lower eyelids being lifted and re-positioned at a higher level so that the lower eyelids will be flatter and more straight-across, sort of like what MM's have (although I don't want squinty-ass eyes by Barrett; I don't care what girls think of him). This will eliminate all sceleral exposure underneath my pupils. Also, from what I've read, a midface lift compliments cheek implants to create more of a "high cheekbone," MM-style look.

I don't think my surgeon does canthoplasties, but he's pretty well-known for doing a similar surgery called a canthopexy. I'm not sure if he's planning on doing a canthopexy during my surgery, though. The midface lift is included in the cost of the custom midface implant, so a canthopexy if needed might be included as well. I just don't want to get too much of a positive canthal tilt since I think it would look weird on my face.

Regarding jaw implants -- I definitely would like to get jaw implants at some point in the future to lower my jaw angles, but cost is just too much of a factor right now. At this point I want to get procedures to mitigate my most glaring aesthetic detractor, and I'm pretty sure this is my midface, which is basically recessed. If I can scrape together enough money, I'll get a custom chin implant as well.

BTW, I have an interesting question for you. Ever since I became an adult, I have wanted to be one of those guys who can show up to a club/bar on a Friday or Saturday night and practically have his pick of a hot (or at least above average) girl to take home and fuck. However, even though I'm pretty sure I'll get SOME improvement from these surgeries, I just can't see myself ever having that overall "attractive male" look, where all the features come together to make for a face that is perceived by women as being highly attractive. 

Would you agree with this assessment? If so, why is that the case? Is it a fundamental issue of the millimeter-based proportions of my face just not coming together to form kinds of the ratios/proportions that stimulate the parts of the human female brain that stimulate sexual attraction?
ratios are a myth

but no, if you are good looking by the end of this (if you correct all the flaws that you can (hair, eyes, lips, skin, etc) and get a nice body you will) then you will be able to get girls
people are good looking because they have specific individual traits. As long as you also have those traits, you will be good looking as well

I hope so. It seems like forum members are split on just how good-looking I have the potential to actually become. Regardless, the pursuit of looksmaxxing is, without a doubt, the foremost goal in my life.
 

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I think Roiding would be Enough to get your desired goal with slaying in Clubs. But lets be honest for cavill side profile you need a full blown lefort 3. you lack a few cms overall forwardgrowth compared to him.
 

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I know that people here usually like to hold Eppley in high esteem as the go-to guy for custom facial implants, but Yaremchuk is really adept at doing these surgeries as well. Check out this before/after result of one of Dr. Y's patients (taken from Dr. Y's website):




Before photos:












More recent pics taken from the patient's Instagram page:














So as you can see, Yaremchuk is REALLY good at not only designing and placing custom facial implants, but at making the result look very natural as well. I'm almost convinced that this guy ended up with a more aesthetic result than he would've had if he had gone with Eppley instead. The only element of the surgery that I think could've been done differently would've been to give him more forward projection with the cheek implants. 

The only thing that makes me apprehensive is the fact that, even though the surgeries made this guy objectively better-looking, he still doesn't have that slayer/chad "look." Why is that? Would it require him undergoing more dramatic craniofacial surgeries to obtain such a significant degree of improvement?
 

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@SurgerySoon that girl sounds like she might have borderline or narcissistic personality disorder. Be aware she could be intentionally manipulating you into feeling bad about your appearance.
 

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SoonTM said:
I think Roiding would be Enough to get your desired goal with slaying in Clubs. But lets be honest for cavill side profile you need a full blown lefort 3. you lack a few cms overall forwardgrowth compared to him.

Yeah, I think getting a literal image-for-image Henry Cavill side profile is wishful thinking, but I definitely think that any additional midface forward growth is going to benefit my looks. The nice thing about modern custom CT-designed midface implants is that they can be designed to cover and augment practically the entire midface, which means that they can come pretty damn close to simulating the result of a LeFort procedure.

Roiding is basically a no-brainer at this point. Unless a guy's just a piece-of-shit lazy fuck, why WOULDN'T you take advantage of such an affordable, effective, and readily-available resource that can dramatically improve sex appeal to girls?
[hr]
RedFlag said:
@SurgerySoon that girl sounds like she might have borderline or narcissistic personality disorder. Be aware she could be intentionally manipulating you into feeling bad about your appearance.

Why would she care to do that, though? I mean, I guess it's possible, but what's in it for her? I'm pretty open with this girl about being pitifully unhappy with my looks and have shared my surgery plans with her, so it's not it's apparent to her that she can make me feel even worse about my looks.

And yes, I realize that talking to this girl about this stuff makes me look beta/unconfident/pussy-ass, but I don't see how that makes any difference since there was never any chance of me ever doing anything sexual with her in the first place. It's kind of like how someone who makes $20k a year and who has no upward career/salary trajectory doesn't need to worry about getting banned from their local Aston Martin dealership, since it's not like they were ever going to be able to afford any of their cars anyways.
[hr]
@key21, what do you think of the before/after result by Dr. Y I posted above?
 

RedFlag

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SurgerySoon said:
SoonTM said:
I think Roiding would be Enough to get your desired goal with slaying in Clubs. But lets be honest for cavill side profile you need a full blown lefort 3. you lack a few cms overall forwardgrowth compared to him.

Yeah, I think getting a literal image-for-image Henry Cavill side profile is wishful thinking, but I definitely think that any additional midface forward growth is going to benefit my looks. The nice thing about modern custom CT-designed midface implants is that they can be designed to cover and augment practically the entire midface, which means that they can come pretty damn close to simulating the result of a LeFort procedure.

Roiding is basically a no-brainer at this point. Unless a guy's just a piece-of-shit lazy fuck, why WOULDN'T you take advantage of such an affordable, effective, and readily-available resource that can dramatically improve sex appeal to girls?
[hr]
RedFlag said:
@SurgerySoon that girl sounds like she might have borderline or narcissistic personality disorder. Be aware she could be intentionally manipulating you into feeling bad about your appearance.

Why would she care to do that, though? I mean, I guess it's possible, but what's in it for her? I'm pretty open with this girl about being pitifully unhappy with my looks and have shared my surgery plans with her, so it's not it's apparent to her that she can make me feel even worse about my looks.

And yes, I realize that talking to this girl about this stuff makes me look beta/unconfident/pussy-ass, but I don't see how that makes any difference since there was never any chance of me ever doing anything sexual with her in the first place. It's kind of like how someone who makes $20k a year and who has no upward career/salary trajectory doesn't need to worry about getting banned from their local Aston Martin dealership, since it's not like they were ever going to be able to afford any of their cars anyways.
[hr]
@key21, what do you think of the before/after result by Dr. Y I posted above?
They just enjoy manipulating people. I actually got one to admit that her greatest pleasure in life was "to cause people pain and suffering". I'm not saying she is definitely like that, but some of the things you said raise a few alarm bells. They're usually very promiscuous.

Be aware that she may be relaying all the cosmetic surgery stuff you're telling her to other friends. Most girls are two faced and like to gossip. It'd probably be like "OMG you know that guy I told you about that's obsessed with plastic surgery?! Well he just said ...".

Also be careful of roiding. It can enlarge your face in a way that's not proportional to your facial bones. It can also cause rosacea and stretch marks.
 

KEy21

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SurgerySoon said:
SoonTM said:
I think Roiding would be Enough to get your desired goal with slaying in Clubs. But lets be honest for cavill side profile you need a full blown lefort 3. you lack a few cms overall forwardgrowth compared to him.

Yeah, I think getting a literal image-for-image Henry Cavill side profile is wishful thinking, but I definitely think that any additional midface forward growth is going to benefit my looks. The nice thing about modern custom CT-designed midface implants is that they can be designed to cover and augment practically the entire midface, which means that they can come pretty damn close to simulating the result of a LeFort procedure.

Roiding is basically a no-brainer at this point. Unless a guy's just a piece-of-shit lazy fuck, why WOULDN'T you take advantage of such an affordable, effective, and readily-available resource that can dramatically improve sex appeal to girls?
[hr]
RedFlag said:
@SurgerySoon that girl sounds like she might have borderline or narcissistic personality disorder. Be aware she could be intentionally manipulating you into feeling bad about your appearance.

Why would she care to do that, though? I mean, I guess it's possible, but what's in it for her? I'm pretty open with this girl about being pitifully unhappy with my looks and have shared my surgery plans with her, so it's not it's apparent to her that she can make me feel even worse about my looks.

And yes, I realize that talking to this girl about this stuff makes me look beta/unconfident/pussy-ass, but I don't see how that makes any difference since there was never any chance of me ever doing anything sexual with her in the first place. It's kind of like how someone who makes $20k a year and who has no upward career/salary trajectory doesn't need to worry about getting banned from their local Aston Martin dealership, since it's not like they were ever going to be able to afford any of their cars anyways.
[hr]
@key21, what do you think of the before/after result by Dr. Y I posted above?
The before and afters look quite good to be honest. Seems like Dr Y is on point in regard to being blackpilled about aesthetics. I think he’s a good option the more than I look at it. Just in general I wouldn’t let him do anything eye related like a bone bridge cantho etc. but that goes without saying.

At the end of the day I think for your goals at hand he’s probably a top surgeon. It’s just for your goals you’ll most likely have to go through further surgeries or procedures after the fact.

He’s actually a very good example. See how he’s noticably better looking and not uncanny valley? Well he’s still not a slayer..he would need more done.
 

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KEy21 said:
SurgerySoon said:
Yeah, I think getting a literal image-for-image Henry Cavill side profile is wishful thinking, but I definitely think that any additional midface forward growth is going to benefit my looks. The nice thing about modern custom CT-designed midface implants is that they can be designed to cover and augment practically the entire midface, which means that they can come pretty damn close to simulating the result of a LeFort procedure.

Roiding is basically a no-brainer at this point. Unless a guy's just a piece-of-shit lazy fuck, why WOULDN'T you take advantage of such an affordable, effective, and readily-available resource that can dramatically improve sex appeal to girls?
[hr]


Why would she care to do that, though? I mean, I guess it's possible, but what's in it for her? I'm pretty open with this girl about being pitifully unhappy with my looks and have shared my surgery plans with her, so it's not it's apparent to her that she can make me feel even worse about my looks.

And yes, I realize that talking to this girl about this stuff makes me look beta/unconfident/pussy-ass, but I don't see how that makes any difference since there was never any chance of me ever doing anything sexual with her in the first place. It's kind of like how someone who makes $20k a year and who has no upward career/salary trajectory doesn't need to worry about getting banned from their local Aston Martin dealership, since it's not like they were ever going to be able to afford any of their cars anyways.
[hr]
@key21, what do you think of the before/after result by Dr. Y I posted above?
The before and afters look quite good to be honest. Seems like Dr Y is on point in regard to being blackpilled about aesthetics. I think he’s a good option the more than I look at it. Just in general I wouldn’t let him do anything eye related like a bone bridge cantho etc. but that goes without saying.

At the end of the day I think for your goals at hand he’s probably a top surgeon. It’s just for your goals you’ll most likely have to go through further surgeries or procedures after the fact.

He’s actually a very good example. See how he’s noticably better looking and not uncanny valley? Well he’s still not a slayer..he would need more done.
@key21, What other procedures does he need to have done in order to actually become a slayer? He's already gotten the wraparound jaw implant, the midface implants, rhino... all I can think of that's left is maybe a brow ridge implant? What do you think?

Also, just curious, but why do you say you wouldn't let him do any eye-related procedures?
[hr]
RedFlag said:
SurgerySoon said:
Yeah, I think getting a literal image-for-image Henry Cavill side profile is wishful thinking, but I definitely think that any additional midface forward growth is going to benefit my looks. The nice thing about modern custom CT-designed midface implants is that they can be designed to cover and augment practically the entire midface, which means that they can come pretty damn close to simulating the result of a LeFort procedure.

Roiding is basically a no-brainer at this point. Unless a guy's just a piece-of-shit lazy fuck, why WOULDN'T you take advantage of such an affordable, effective, and readily-available resource that can dramatically improve sex appeal to girls?
[hr]


Why would she care to do that, though? I mean, I guess it's possible, but what's in it for her? I'm pretty open with this girl about being pitifully unhappy with my looks and have shared my surgery plans with her, so it's not it's apparent to her that she can make me feel even worse about my looks.

And yes, I realize that talking to this girl about this stuff makes me look beta/unconfident/pussy-ass, but I don't see how that makes any difference since there was never any chance of me ever doing anything sexual with her in the first place. It's kind of like how someone who makes $20k a year and who has no upward career/salary trajectory doesn't need to worry about getting banned from their local Aston Martin dealership, since it's not like they were ever going to be able to afford any of their cars anyways.
[hr]
@key21, what do you think of the before/after result by Dr. Y I posted above?
They just enjoy manipulating people. I actually got one to admit that her greatest pleasure in life was "to cause people pain and suffering". I'm not saying she is definitely like that, but some of the things you said raise a few alarm bells. They're usually very promiscuous.

Be aware that she may be relaying all the cosmetic surgery stuff you're telling her to other friends. Most girls are two faced and like to gossip. It'd probably be like "OMG you know that guy I told you about that's obsessed with plastic surgery?! Well he just said ...".

Also be careful of roiding. It can enlarge your face in a way that's not proportional to your facial bones. It can also cause rosacea and stretch marks.

To be honest, I don't even care if she tells her friends about my plans, because I'm not under any illusions that I was ever going to have a chance with any of them anyways.

Thanks for the heads up regarding roiding. Do you have any sources that discuss the facial growth risks in more detail? This is something I had never heard before.
 

slop slinger

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SurgerySoon said:
I know that people here usually like to hold Eppley in high esteem as the go-to guy for custom facial implants, but Yaremchuk is really adept at doing these surgeries as well. Check out this before/after result of one of Dr. Y's patients (taken from Dr. Y's website):




Before photos:












More recent pics taken from the patient's Instagram page:














So as you can see, Yaremchuk is REALLY good at not only designing and placing custom facial implants, but at making the result look very natural as well. I'm almost convinced that this guy ended up with a more aesthetic result than he would've had if he had gone with Eppley instead. The only element of the surgery that I think could've been done differently would've been to give him more forward projection with the cheek implants. 

The only thing that makes me apprehensive is the fact that, even though the surgeries made this guy objectively better-looking, he still doesn't have that slayer/chad "look." Why is that? Would it require him undergoing more dramatic craniofacial surgeries to obtain such a significant degree of improvement?

He doesn't have chad look because of eyes, hairline, and deep set personality traits/mannerisms developed as an ugly dude
 

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slop slinger said:
SurgerySoon said:
I know that people here usually like to hold Eppley in high esteem as the go-to guy for custom facial implants, but Yaremchuk is really adept at doing these surgeries as well. Check out this before/after result of one of Dr. Y's patients (taken from Dr. Y's website):




Before photos:












More recent pics taken from the patient's Instagram page:














So as you can see, Yaremchuk is REALLY good at not only designing and placing custom facial implants, but at making the result look very natural as well. I'm almost convinced that this guy ended up with a more aesthetic result than he would've had if he had gone with Eppley instead. The only element of the surgery that I think could've been done differently would've been to give him more forward projection with the cheek implants. 

The only thing that makes me apprehensive is the fact that, even though the surgeries made this guy objectively better-looking, he still doesn't have that slayer/chad "look." Why is that? Would it require him undergoing more dramatic craniofacial surgeries to obtain such a significant degree of improvement?

He doesn't have chad look because of eyes, hairline, and deep set personality traits/mannerisms developed as an ugly dude
Based on what I saw on his Instagram page, he's into stuff like card games (like Magic the Gathering or whatever), Lord of the Rings, mythology/fantasy stuff, so he's probably really high inhib.

You said the eyes are part of what's holding him back from getting the chad look. How could his eyes be further improved? They look fairly thin already. Does he need more PCT or something? @slopslinger
 

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Bump -- check out the before/after pics I posted above of one of Dr. Yaremchuk's patients who underwent custom CT-designed wraparound jaw/chin and cheek implants, along with rhinoplasty and facial fat removal. What do you guys think? Between Dr. Y and Dr. Eppley, who do you guys think is the better surgeon?
 

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Here's another before/after example of one of Dr. Y's patients I just found. This is an interesting case, because the patient apparently went to Dr. Y in the past and had basically his entire face augmented with implants: malar, orbital rim, posterior jaw, anterior jaw, chin, and paranasal implants. Here's a photo of what he looked like with all those implants in his face (he only posted a side profile pic):





As you can see, the work looks very natural, masculine, and balanced. You can't tell that this guy had any sort of surgery based on this pic. Recently, he decided to go back to Dr. Y to have a new chin implant designed with the goal of making it more prominent and square. Here's his new side profile after having the new chin implant placed:



As you can see, the chin is much more prominent now. TBH, I'm not really a fan of such a strong look. Here are a couple pics showing the front of his face with the new chin implant. Obviously, he wanted to go REALLY wide on the chin:







IMO, the chin is a bit too large/wide/bulky for my tastes, but apparently that's exactly the kind of result this guy was going for. Keep in mind that this new chin implant replaces a smaller one (and I'm assuming more proportional one) that was originally selected/designed by Dr. Y. 

I think the cheek/orbital rim implants look really good -- just like with the last guy I posted pics of, though, I think he could've gone even bigger/more prominent with the cheek implants. It seems like Dr. Y prefers to be more conservative when it comes to designing cheek implants for males. Considering my goals, it will probably be a good idea for me to tell him to design the cheek implants to be a bit larger.

What do you guys think of this result? Should he have gone smaller with chin implant design? @key21 @headsupdisplay @diculo @sansdopamine @amiugly @plasticsurgeryascend @stereo
 

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what an amazing result regardless of chin. just needed more augmentation in the chin drip or curve area to make the chin a straight line instead of curved. implants are a legit looksmaxxing. thank you for your contribution.