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The thread title basically says it all. By the end of March, I will be undergoing several facial plastic surgery procedures to overhaul my face to try and become as close to MM-looking as possible. The procedures I will be getting done include: custom CT scan-designed midface implants that augment the cheeks and orbital rims, double-chin fat removal (I.e., submental lipectomy), and a type of partial facelift called a midface lift that will straighten and lift my lower eyelids in order to obtain a more attractive eye area. 

See my older threads below for links to pics (note that I am frauding in some/most of these by flexing my cheek muscles to make cheeks look more defined/hollowed):

https://lookism.net/Thread-Can-I-get-a-morph-please-Getting-custom-CT-designed-facial-implants-soon

https://lookism.net/Thread-Rate-Rate-me-according-to-the-PSL-and-normie-scales-and-suggest-improvements

Newer photo from early December (I am frauding in this pic by attempting to squint and make my cheeks look more defined):


I am still on the fence as to whether or not I should get a custom-designed chin implant as well. My chin is slightly short from the side profile, but I am thinking about leaving the chin alone for now and seeing how it looks after the submental lipectomy. 

Girls IRL are totally unattracted to me and I receive ZERO IOI's, aside from the ugliest and most disgusting of girls. I hope that these surgeries will make me a more physically attractive male so that I can be one of "those guys" who shows up to a club on Friday/Saturday night and manages to take home a slightly above-average (or even just average) girl with relatively little effort. I am also going to run my first legit steroids cycle a few weeks after the surgeries.

I want to change the fundamental nature of who I look like as a male, and I'm beyond ready to get this shit done. AMA.
 
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Don’t be silly man

Just try to have kinder eyes.
 
you  have resting psycho serial killer eyes wheras most people have resting beta eyes. Most people benefit from looking more angry but you need to do a “smize” 24/7 or you are fucked
[hr]
We dont actually get surgeries here its just a 2015 lookis meme
 

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ct scan mogged

 

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Gertrudes_cat said:
Don’t be silly man

Just try to have kinder eyes.
 
you  have resting psycho serial killer eyes wheras most people have resting beta eyes. Most people benefit from looking more angry but you need to do a “smize” 24/7 or you are fucked
[hr]
We dont actually get surgeries here its just a 2015 lookis meme
Well, I guess I will be one of the first Lookism posters to follow-through on getting major facial plastic surgery. I need to post some pics, but you'd be surprised as to how shallow/recessed my midface is from the side and oblique views. I think this is part of the reason why my lower eyelids look so bad -- there is virtually no support at all.

Stereo said:
ct scan mogged


I will be getting the CT scan done within a week or two and will post the scans here. I will also post the updated scans after implants have been designed for my skull.
 
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doctor? cost of each implant?
 

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PlasticSurgeryAscend said:
doctor? cost of each implant?

Dr. Yaremchuk in Boston. The cost of custom cheek/orbital rim implants and the midface lift is $12.5k, and if I do a custom chin implant as well, the price will be $16.4k. Double chin fat removal (submental lipectomy) is an additional $2800. I know for sure that I want the custom cheek/orbital rim implants and the midface lift as well as the submental lipectomy, but I'm still undecided about the chin implant.
 
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have you had your body fat percentage measured? if so what was it? I had a terrible submental region that I failed to correct by injecting Kybella.  Another surgeon said it was actually caused the fact that my maxilla is somewhat flat (not submental fat) and my submental salivary glands are pushed down (leading to the apperance of a weak hyoid, but in actuality not really a problem there).  just wondering about more details of your submental region.

I didnt read the other threads but skimming them I see that a lot of people were recommending orbital decompression as the answer to excessive scleral show.  I think this is a terrible idea (and some surgeons I talked to as well) and that a much better solution is the one you listed (mid face implants, moving the zygos forward rather than making the sockets bigger to move the eyes back).  Moving the eyes back just leads to a beady eye appearance.  What makes male models attractive isnt small eyes, its their forward zygos, maxillas, and brow ridges that all frame the eyes appropriately, with their eyes at roughly the same location.
 

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cantrememberpasslmao said:
have you had your body fat percentage measured? if so what was it? I had a terrible submental region that I failed to correct by injecting Kybella.  Another surgeon said it was actually caused the fact that my maxilla is somewhat flat (not submental fat) and my submental salivary glands are pushed down (leading to the apperance of a weak hyoid, but in actuality not really a problem there).  just wondering about more details of your submental region.

I didnt read the other threads but skimming them I see that a lot of people were recommending orbital decompression as the answer to excessive scleral show.  I think this is a terrible idea (and some surgeons I talked to as well) and that a much better solution is the one you listed (mid face implants, moving the zygos forward rather than making the sockets bigger to move the eyes back).  Moving the eyes back just leads to a beady eye appearance.  What makes male models attractive isnt small eyes, its their forward zygos, maxillas, and brow ridges that all frame the eyes appropriately, with their eyes at roughly the same location.

You make great points in your post.

To answer your question regarding the submental area -- I completely forgot to mention that I, too, had Kybella injected (2 vials) back in March 2018. After dealing with nearly a month of swelling, my double chin was pretty much the same size. I haven't had my body fat percentage tested, but it's fairly low right now; I almost (but not quite) can see my abs. I haven't had my submental area analyzed by any surgeons, so I'm assuming it looks the way it looks because of standard "double chin" fat. I could be wrong, though. Hopefully the submental lipectomy doesn't end up being a waste of money like the Kybella was. 

Regarding your other point about getting midface implants as opposed to orbital decompression, I totally agree with what you said. My midface is actually fairly shallow (even recessed), which you can see in these pics that were taken a week or two ago:


As you can see, when I'm not frauding or selectively taking pics from "good angles," my double chin is really noticeable (especially in the last pic) to the extent that it denotes an overall oval shape to my head. In general, I'm happy with the shape of it, but I think it could be a wider and more square at the edges. However, I don't really need much in the way of additional forward projection, so I'm not sure if getting an implant would be a good idea or not. 

Also, do you see what I mean when I say that my midface is shallow/recessed? It is very, very noticeable in photos taken from the oblique perspective. So besides giving more support to the lower eyelids and getting a midface lift to actually lift the lower eyelids, it's clear that (even if the eyes weren't an issue) I would also benefit from custom midface implants that would create the appearance of having more forward growth of the zygos. 

Or another way to look at is, even if I did get orbital decompression to make the eyes more deep-set, that wouldn't solve the issue of having a shallow/recessed midface, and I'd still need to have a procedure to bring the zygos forward. By opting for custom midface implants instead (which augment both the zygos and orbital rims with a single implant) and getting the midface lift, I basically solve both issues without having to deal with the risks of getting orbital decompression surgery.
 

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lefort+bsso+genio

 

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Stereo said:
lefort+bsso+genio


Thanks for the morph. I like how my submental area looks with the fat removed, but I don't think I would like having so much anterior chin projection. It almost kind of looks like I'm trying to jut my chin out, although I can see how some guys would want that look.
 

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SurgerySoon said:
The thread title basically says it all. By the end of March, I will be undergoing several facial plastic surgery procedures to overhaul my face to try and become as close to MM-looking as possible. The procedures I will be getting done include: custom CT scan-designed midface implants that augment the cheeks and orbital rims, double-chin fat removal (I.e., submental lipectomy), and a type of partial facelift called a midface lift that will straighten and lift my lower eyelids in order to obtain a more attractive eye area. 

See my older threads below for links to pics (note that I am frauding in some/most of these by flexing my cheek muscles to make cheeks look more defined/hollowed):

https://lookism.net/Thread-Can-I-get-a-morph-please-Getting-custom-CT-designed-facial-implants-soon

https://lookism.net/Thread-Rate-Rate-me-according-to-the-PSL-and-normie-scales-and-suggest-improvements

Newer photo from early December (I am frauding in this pic by attempting to squint and make my cheeks look more defined):


I am still on the fence as to whether or not I should get a custom-designed chin implant as well. My chin is slightly short from the side profile, but I am thinking about leaving the chin alone for now and seeing how it looks after the submental lipectomy. 

Girls IRL are totally unattracted to me and I receive ZERO IOI's, aside from the ugliest and most disgusting of girls. I hope that these surgeries will make me a more physically attractive male so that I can be one of "those guys" who shows up to a club on Friday/Saturday night and manages to take home a slightly above-average (or even just average) girl with relatively little effort. I am also going to run my first legit steroids cycle a few weeks after the surgeries.

I want to change the fundamental nature of who I look like as a male, and I'm beyond ready to get this shit done. AMA.
i would highly recommend custom jaw implant more than chin implant. i think you need a longer ramus more than wider chin. 

have you thought about custom maxilla or cheekbone implants? i think your maxilla looks kind of flat and that takes away from your aesthetics?

have you thought about hair transplant to make squarer hairline? this alone raises PSL points.
 

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cantrememberpasslmao said:
have you had your body fat percentage measured? if so what was it? I had a terrible submental region that I failed to correct by injecting Kybella.  Another surgeon said it was actually caused the fact that my maxilla is somewhat flat (not submental fat) and my submental salivary glands are pushed down (leading to the apperance of a weak hyoid, but in actuality not really a problem there).  just wondering about more details of your submental region.

I didnt read the other threads but skimming them I see that a lot of people were recommending orbital decompression as the answer to excessive scleral show.  I think this is a terrible idea (and some surgeons I talked to as well) and that a much better solution is the one you listed (mid face implants, moving the zygos forward rather than making the sockets bigger to move the eyes back).  Moving the eyes back just leads to a beady eye appearance.  What makes male models attractive isnt small eyes, its their forward zygos, maxillas, and brow ridges that all frame the eyes appropriately, with their eyes at roughly the same location.
What do you think of infraorbital rim implants alone for undereye tear troughs and forward projection?

I have horrible undereye support and tear troughs so I figured that orbital rim implants + Cantho would fix the canthil tilt and forward projection of the undereye area to give an illusion that the orbitals are at least somewhat present. 

Now i'm starting to think from your post, that just because the orbitals are filled in and that my eyes are deeper set with PCT...That i'd STILL be lacking an aesthetic eye area due to lack of brow ridge and prominent zygos. So while I may share the same traits as an MM, I won't have a similar look.

That's very upsetting if true. 

Also mid face lift + custom mid face implants for less than 17k is dirt cheap in my opinion. I've saved over 110k that I can freely spend on surgery and I haven't even figured out what I want yet. Yaremchuk is an old fuck so I don't think i'd ever go to him.
 

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diculo said:
SurgerySoon said:
The thread title basically says it all. By the end of March, I will be undergoing several facial plastic surgery procedures to overhaul my face to try and become as close to MM-looking as possible. The procedures I will be getting done include: custom CT scan-designed midface implants that augment the cheeks and orbital rims, double-chin fat removal (I.e., submental lipectomy), and a type of partial facelift called a midface lift that will straighten and lift my lower eyelids in order to obtain a more attractive eye area. 

See my older threads below for links to pics (note that I am frauding in some/most of these by flexing my cheek muscles to make cheeks look more defined/hollowed):

https://lookism.net/Thread-Can-I-get-a-morph-please-Getting-custom-CT-designed-facial-implants-soon

https://lookism.net/Thread-Rate-Rate-me-according-to-the-PSL-and-normie-scales-and-suggest-improvements

Newer photo from early December (I am frauding in this pic by attempting to squint and make my cheeks look more defined):


I am still on the fence as to whether or not I should get a custom-designed chin implant as well. My chin is slightly short from the side profile, but I am thinking about leaving the chin alone for now and seeing how it looks after the submental lipectomy. 

Girls IRL are totally unattracted to me and I receive ZERO IOI's, aside from the ugliest and most disgusting of girls. I hope that these surgeries will make me a more physically attractive male so that I can be one of "those guys" who shows up to a club on Friday/Saturday night and manages to take home a slightly above-average (or even just average) girl with relatively little effort. I am also going to run my first legit steroids cycle a few weeks after the surgeries.

I want to change the fundamental nature of who I look like as a male, and I'm beyond ready to get this shit done. AMA.
i would highly recommend custom jaw implant more than chin implant. i think you need a longer ramus more than wider chin. 

have you thought about custom maxilla or cheekbone implants? i think your maxilla looks kind of flat and that takes away from your aesthetics?

have you thought about hair transplant to make squarer hairline? this alone raises PSL points.
@diculo, so the custom midface implant is what Dr. Yaremchuk calls custom cheek implants. The reason he uses the term "midface implant" is because the implant augments both the cheekbones and orbital rims with a single implant placed on both sides of the face (two implants total). So basically, I'm doing exactly what you suggested in regards to maxilla/cheekbone augmentation.

I agree that jaw implants to lower my jaw angles would look good; however, I just don't have tons of money to spend on all these procedures right now, unfortunately. So for now, I'm just going to take care of the most obvious aesthetic detractors, which appear to be the flat midface/cheekbones, recessed orbital rims, and 1/10 eye area. I will definitely consider getting jaw implants to lower my ramus in a few years.

KEy21 said:
cantrememberpasslmao said:
have you had your body fat percentage measured? if so what was it? I had a terrible submental region that I failed to correct by injecting Kybella.  Another surgeon said it was actually caused the fact that my maxilla is somewhat flat (not submental fat) and my submental salivary glands are pushed down (leading to the apperance of a weak hyoid, but in actuality not really a problem there).  just wondering about more details of your submental region.

I didnt read the other threads but skimming them I see that a lot of people were recommending orbital decompression as the answer to excessive scleral show.  I think this is a terrible idea (and some surgeons I talked to as well) and that a much better solution is the one you listed (mid face implants, moving the zygos forward rather than making the sockets bigger to move the eyes back).  Moving the eyes back just leads to a beady eye appearance.  What makes male models attractive isnt small eyes, its their forward zygos, maxillas, and brow ridges that all frame the eyes appropriately, with their eyes at roughly the same location.
What do you think of infraorbital rim implants alone for undereye tear troughs and forward projection?

I have horrible undereye support and tear troughs so I figured that orbital rim implants + Cantho would fix the canthil tilt and forward projection of the undereye area to give an illusion that the orbitals are at least somewhat present. 

Now i'm starting to think from your post, that just because the orbitals are filled in and that my eyes are deeper set with PCT...That i'd STILL be lacking an aesthetic eye area due to lack of brow ridge and prominent zygos. So while I may share the same traits as an MM, I won't have a similar look.

That's very upsetting if true. 

Also mid face lift + custom mid face implants for less than 17k is dirt cheap in my opinion. I've saved over 110k that I can freely spend on surgery and I haven't even figured out what I want yet. Yaremchuk is an old fuck so I don't think i'd ever go to him.
@key21, Dr. Y actually only charges $12.5k for custom midface implants + midface lift, so if that's all someone wants to have done, it's way cheaper than $17k. It's the custom chin implant that pushes the total price to $16.4k. Submental lipectomy is an additional $2800.

I'm not 100% certain, but I think Dr. Y is in his mid-60s. AFAIK, Dr. Eppley is in his 60s as well, so both surgeons are getting up there in age (if that's a consideration for you when it comes to choosing a surgeon). What I like about Dr. Y is that he seems to have a very academic, almost mathematical approach to doing procedures (he's written textbooks, journal articles, etc.). Which surgeons are you considering? Aside from Yaremchuk and Eppley, who else is well-known for doing these kinds of procedures?
 

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those surgeons have intuition for aesrhetics, which is valuable if you go in blind and let them do all the work. but if you have intuition yourself, any surgeon will do, just guide them in their steps.
 

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Stereo said:
those surgeons have intuition for aesrhetics, which is valuable if you go in blind and let them do all the work. but if you have intuition yourself, any surgeon will do, just guide them in their steps.

That's a good point, but it's also worth mentioning that many facial plastic surgeons only place standard Implantech catalog implants; most of these implants (especially the cheek implants) weren't designed to create a masculine MM-type look. An exception would be the new jaw angle-lengthening implants, which were designed by Eppley.
 

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Here are a few more pics where you can really see just how flat my midface area is. It's almost like there is a negative vector (this is the technical/medical term for "sinks inward") not only of the orbital rims, but of the entire midface itself, including the anterior portion of the cheekbones. It's like my midface forgot to grow in the forward direction or something.

However, what's weird is that there is a slight ogee curve that can be seen in photos taken from the oblique perspective. How the hell can someone have such a recessed, shallow midface and yet still have an ogee curve, even if it is just a small one? Is this because of decent lateral zygo development, even though there's pretty much no forward zygo/midface development at all?

See pics to get an idea of what I mean: 


This last photo is so bad, I felt it deserved its own imgur post. Look not only at how recessed the midface looks here, but also at how flat/short the chin looks (even though it usually doesn't look quite this bad from most perspectives):


So based on how shallow and recessed my midface looks in terms of lacking anterior projection, should I tell Dr. Yaremchuk to focus on adding forward projection to my zygos/orbital rims when he designs my midface implants? Also, do you guys think I should tell him to avoid adding too much (if any) lateral projection to my zygos?

@key21 @stereo @diculo @cantrememberpasslmao @gertrudes_cat
 

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SurgerySoon said:
Here are a few more pics where you can really see just how flat my midface area is. It's almost like there is a negative vector (this is the technical/medical term for "sinks inward") not only of the orbital rims, but of the entire midface itself, including the anterior portion of the cheekbones. It's like my midface forgot to grow in the forward direction or something.

However, what's weird is that there is a slight ogee curve that can be seen in photos taken from the oblique perspective. How the hell can someone have such a recessed, shallow midface and yet still have an ogee curve, even if it is just a small one? Is this because of decent lateral zygo development, even though there's pretty much no forward zygo/midface development at all?

See pics to get an idea of what I mean: 


This last photo is so bad, I felt it deserved its own imgur post. Look not only at how recessed the midface looks here, but also at how flat/short the chin looks (even though it usually doesn't look quite this bad from most perspectives):


So based on how shallow and recessed my midface looks in terms of lacking anterior projection, should I tell Dr. Yaremchuk to focus on adding forward projection to my zygos/orbital rims when he designs my midface implants? Also, do you guys think I should tell him to avoid adding too much (if any) lateral projection to my zygos?

@key21 @stereo @diculo @cantrememberpasslmao @gertrudes_cat
Based on the picture, I think whatever he had in mind for forward projection should be sufficient. As far as customizing the implants to best accommodate your goals of have more of an mm look i'd have no idea how to do so or what's ideal. As what sounds appealing and straightforward can look completely different in practice. I'd probably wait for Stereo's answer on that as he seems to know what's best in an aesthetic sense for said goal.

Funny you say that about the ogee curve. I have the same thing. Zygos are average but orbitals are sunken in and I have pretty bad tear troughs. 

I know Eppley does morphs for his patients, do you think Yaremchuk would do the same for you? I'd probably get one morph of a generic implant that will fulfill the forward growth needs of ample bone support, then one where it's more customized and make to enhance the zygomatic region. Just so you know that if it looks too uncanny valley you won't have to get it put inside you. 

All in all i'll say this...I think you will automatically be better in the "after" picture than the "before" one if he's able to give you the illusion of more than adequate forward growth and bone support in the upper mid face region. How can a flat and recessed mid face possibly look better than one that has the proper amount of bone support?

Do you have any concerns on the longevity of the implants with Yaremchuk and whether they'll still be good enough to stay in place and not disintegrate in 20 years down the line?

I'd say you're definitely smart for bigger implants as opposed to just simply infraorbitals. I should probably do the same but am getting several other eye surgeries including ptosis surgery, almond eye and infraorbital rim implants all in one. So there is enough on my surgeries on my plate.
 

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Your submental looks like shit because your chin lacks projection. I have similar problem. When I added some fillers to the chin my submental improved
 

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KEy21 said:
SurgerySoon said:
Here are a few more pics where you can really see just how flat my midface area is. It's almost like there is a negative vector (this is the technical/medical term for "sinks inward") not only of the orbital rims, but of the entire midface itself, including the anterior portion of the cheekbones. It's like my midface forgot to grow in the forward direction or something.

However, what's weird is that there is a slight ogee curve that can be seen in photos taken from the oblique perspective. How the hell can someone have such a recessed, shallow midface and yet still have an ogee curve, even if it is just a small one? Is this because of decent lateral zygo development, even though there's pretty much no forward zygo/midface development at all?

See pics to get an idea of what I mean: 


This last photo is so bad, I felt it deserved its own imgur post. Look not only at how recessed the midface looks here, but also at how flat/short the chin looks (even though it usually doesn't look quite this bad from most perspectives):


So based on how shallow and recessed my midface looks in terms of lacking anterior projection, should I tell Dr. Yaremchuk to focus on adding forward projection to my zygos/orbital rims when he designs my midface implants? Also, do you guys think I should tell him to avoid adding too much (if any) lateral projection to my zygos?

@key21 @stereo @diculo @cantrememberpasslmao @gertrudes_cat
Based on the picture, I think whatever he had in mind for forward projection should be sufficient. As far as customizing the implants to best accommodate your goals of have more of an mm look i'd have no idea how to do so or what's ideal. As what sounds appealing and straightforward can look completely different in practice. I'd probably wait for Stereo's answer on that as he seems to know what's best in an aesthetic sense for said goal.

Funny you say that about the ogee curve. I have the same thing. Zygos are average but orbitals are sunken in and I have pretty bad tear troughs. 

I know Eppley does morphs for his patients, do you think Yaremchuk would do the same for you? I'd probably get one morph of a generic implant that will fulfill the forward growth needs of ample bone support, then one where it's more customized and make to enhance the zygomatic region. Just so you know that if it looks too uncanny valley you won't have to get it put inside you. 

All in all i'll say this...I think you will automatically be better in the "after" picture than the "before" one if he's able to give you the illusion of more than adequate forward growth and bone support in the upper mid face region. How can a flat and recessed mid face possibly look better than one that has the proper amount of bone support?

Do you have any concerns on the longevity of the implants with Yaremchuk and whether they'll still be good enough to stay in place and not disintegrate in 20 years down the line?

I'd say you're definitely smart for bigger implants as opposed to just simply infraorbitals. I should probably do the same but am getting several other eye surgeries including ptosis surgery, almond eye and infraorbital rim implants all in one. So there is enough on my surgeries on my plate.

Good luck with your surgeries, hope they all work out.

To answer your question, Yaremchuk said he doesn't like doing morphs because it's just "moving around pixels" and because he doesn't feel they always give an accurate before/after representation of what surgery can achieve. 

I'm thinking the exact same thing as you, though -- if my face doesn't really have any stark aesthetic detractors other than a noticeably recessed midface (including orbital rims), how could it NOT look good to augment that area? Isn't it kind of like putting the most obviously missing puzzle piece in place on a puzzle board? 

I'm hoping that by creating the illusion of having above-average midface forward growth with implants, it will make my overall look "click" more in the sense of general attractiveness. The midface lift should also help with lifting the lower eyelids so that they don't have the appearance that they're both drooping or even "melting" in a lateral/downwards direction. 

Aside from eliminating my tear troughs and the negative vector in general, this is the sort of look I hope to achieve from the front malar portion of the midface implants:




Do you see how he has strong anterior projection of the cheekbones, whereas mine are basically flat (and with sagging midface tissue)?
[hr]
Rimcel said:
Your submental looks like shit because your chin lacks projection. I have similar problem. When I added some fillers to the chin my submental improved

I agree that my submental area looks like total shit, but at the same time, how much more projection would my chin really benefit from? Even though it looks recessed in certain photos, in others it barely does at all. Also, do you really think that adding a small amount of additional projection would eliminate the double chin? I can literally grab the submental region and feel flab there. Also, double chins run in my family lineage.